AIBU to feel my son is unfairly comparing support?

[Appleteeth]

Hi all, first of all I want to make it clear I’m not by any means saying I have been a good mother to my son, or that he doesn’t have every right to resent me for that, I don’t want this to read as woe is me.

Background
I have 2 children they are 41 and 26, I had my first child at 21, he was for the most part raised by my mother, I was completing my nursing degree then doing shift work, I provided for him financially, took him on holiday etc, but I will admit my mother did the vast majority of the day to day care. When he was 11 he wanted to try and live with me and my then partner, he moved in for 6 months but was having problems at school, we then trialled by partner moving out, nothing improved and he insisted he wanted to go back to his grans. So he did, my partner then moved back in.
3 years later my partner and I had our daughter, her father then left and never returned when she was 6 so I raised her alone.

Lately my son has increasingly been talking about the the injustice of his childhood, how DD did more hobbies than him, how the only reason DD now owns a home is because she had more support.

1. There was little in the way of financial disparity, actually I think my son got more money spent on him over all, he had a summer holiday every year, was taken abroad etc.
2. He always had the most fashionable clothes and toys, my mother and I worked extremely hard to ensure this

Yes DD did more hobbies, but my son never actually wanted to as a child, and as a result the last time DD left the country for a family holiday in childhood she was 4, we didn’t do a single holiday between 4 and 11, not even a uk break. DDs birthday and Christmas gifts were often made up of whatever she needed for hobbies that year.

She did go on to go to university being the first in our family to do so, got married and now has children.

She owns a home but I had no involvement in this at all, she and her partner (who had been together since they were 14 saved, and received help from his family, I didn’t have any money to offer).

Now I’m mortgage free but not very high earning as I left nursing for my own health 20 years ago.

I make no difference in the gifts I give to my son’s children and my daughters. I pay for us all to go on holiday once a year (just a uk break).

My son also borrows money every month which he doesn’t always pay back in full but I’ve accepted this.

This afternoon my son came over and he was complaining that his sons didn’t have their proper PE kit and went back to school last week, I told him I don’t have anymore money to give him, he has already had £400 this month and still owes me money from last month.

He then went on a rant that he knows I spent more on my daughter’s children’s school shoes than I did on his sons. This is true but I didn’t do it deliberately, I told them both I could afford £50 per child on school shoes, DD bought her children shoes from start rite so she spent it all, he sent me a link to some shoes which were only £30, I ordered exactly what he sent me.

This then spiralled into me apparently loving my DDs children more than his! This isn’t true at all. I see DDs children a little more as she is in the same town as me and a walk away, I babysit them one day a week for 2 hours and they come over for dinner once a week. I see my son’s children once a week as he brings them over and I try to stop in and see them when I can but it’s a bus away and I’m still working. He also asks me not to come to his ok the weekend so the only option is either the day I already have DDs children or after work. I have offered him babysitting countless times and he always says no he will get his partners mum to do it.

I don’t know what to do?

AIBU to feel I’m not currently doing anything wrong even if in the past I did mess up in having my mum raise him?

Im open to advice!

He’s manipulating you. Stop giving him money. He’s a grown man with two kids, he needs to step up. You’ve offered all you can. He doesn’t get to tell you who you spend time with, least of all your daughter or her children. He doesn’t sound like a very nice person.

Completely agree with this and pp saying he's manipulative.

He's making you jump through hoops and only wants you to see his kids the one night you babysit for your DD?

He's insanely jealous of her and even if you give him what he wants he will change the goalposts.

Don't do it op. You've said you're sorry, you give him money every month- probably enabling a gambling problem, I'd stop that for a bit as well.

He can't rake you over the coals for the rest of your life.

He is walking all over you. Stop giving him money. Tell him you would love to spend more quality time with him, and be available but do not put your relationship with your daughter and grandchildren down just to appease him. Stop apologising to him - it does no good and he clearly resents you. You cant change that. Own it and move on.

What?! Why would you let your dd down with established childcare arrangements to appease your stroppy 40yo son?!
Right now you are making decisions out of severe mum-guilt. Stop it. You made mistakes. He is hurt. But that hurt doesnt mean you need to enable his bad behaviour for the rest of your life and damage your other relationships.
He is a grown up. His feelings and trauma are his responsibility to heal and Explore. You can help him with that by being emotionally available to talk and go through it. But you DON'T have to give him money and allowances to buy his approval of you. In my opinion it is pretty disgusting how he treats his own sister and her children. A fully grown man?!
Stop enabling him. He doesn't get to decide how much time you spend with your grandchildren or daughter. He can ask your presence more, sure. But he cant dictate your relationships. He is not a boy anymore. He is a man. And it is time he took accountability of his own actions and emotions.

I think that this isn’t really about money as other have said. My BIL had to live with his his grandparents for a year when he was small and despite this being a very long time ago, it has lead to a lifetime of resentment and feeling of unfair treatment and that his siblings are favoured, despite this being demonstrably untrue.
i think all you can do is continue being honest and open with your son. I don’t think you should start spending more on him/his kids- you are already helping him out financially to a massive degree. At the end of the day- yes, his childhood was messy, but he had a loving home with immediate family with you and your Mum caring for him. He is an adult now (40+!) and at some point needs to put on his big boy pants and get over it. As a parent himself, he should know that sometimes we make crap choices with the best of intentions at that time and actually- although it is obviously not great that he didn’t live with you (which you acknowledge and apologise for)- you made that decision to give him stability.
You sound like a lovely Mum.

Also should add- do not stop having your DD’s children on the Wednesdays.
It causes stress for all of you and won’t make him happy anyway, he will find something else to fixate on.
Also- stop giving him so much money.
I think you are 100% correct to buy things the children need, rather than sending him the money.
what is your relationship with DIL like?

Personally I wouldn’t stop babysitting for your daughter. No reason to ruin all your relationships.

Obviously you can see he’s super angry and resentful and £20 on school shoes here or there isn’t really the problem. He’s had 20 years to figure things out and hasn’t. He makes a good salary and bullies his mother and grandmother for money constantly. He doesn’t want you to see his kids or his sister’s kids or have any money for yourself. This is not great. And yes you abandoned him and yes he had a troubled childhood with a grandmother who over indulged him. You made huge mistakes but you didn’t leave him on the streets and you didn’t abuse him and he was cared for - maybe too much - by someone who loves him. This isn’t a tragedy. His life today is.

I don’t think you can really repair this to be honest. Your relationship with him is going to be difficult, he sounds like a bully if he’s bothering his grandmother for money constantly and no one even knows where it’s going. £30 on his own child’s shoes shouldn’t be difficult for him with the amount of money he has between his salary, his wife’s salary, £500 from you and another from his grandmother. Something. Pretty bad is going on sadly.

I agree with pp regarding the family therapy, use this site to find one:

https://www.counselling-directory.org.uk

My upbringing was a little similar with materialistic parent who equated posessions to parenting, meanwhile gran raised me. Then sibling was born and work was changed to accomodate them more with their time, theyve always had a great bond.

Its a deep wound and I have no parental bonds. But Ive healed as much as I can through my own therapy. I suppose at least you recognise the damage youve caused is a start.

@Appleteeth i wouldn’t be bowing down to this op. You will never be able to do right by him . You can and have said sorry and that thing should have been different. I’d call it out and say you can’t be guilt tripped into handing money out all the time and ask what he actually does with his money. He is either taking advantage of your guilt or thinks it’s his right. Seems he thinks if he had you at home he would have went to Uni and had load of money and a nice bought house ( he may be right )
I would not stop helping your daughter .
I think therapy together for you both would be money better spent . Tell son you are going to be putting the money to that and can’t give him money each month anymore . Offer to sit down and help with sorting his finances out.
Dd needs that one day a week childcare , ds needs money lending .
I think you have to be strong and consistent.

He's 42 now. He needs to take responsibility and stop blaming you for all that is not enough in his life. You owe him nothing. Stop enabling him. Stop being manipulated to give him cash. He is a grown man!

IMHO, if he thinks he "deserves" more money now because he didn't get to spend time with you growing up, then he is being manipulative.
Money doesn't make up for not being there. Did you live with your mother at the same time he did at all and while you were in school?

His "my HS only has a house because you gave her more" is just an excuse he uses in his head. He could have gone to school or gotten into a well-paid trade, but he didn't. He has spent all of his time whining about the unfairness of his life. It would have been a lot worse in many ways if you hadn't gone to nursing school.

If you never lived with him, then yes, that was very, very wrong. But, if you were in the same house while going to school but the heavy lifting was done by your mother, he should be grateful he wasn't just dropped off at different childminders every day.

I am sure he has some just causes to be upset but they won't be cured with giving him more money. Pay for a therapist for him and you instead.

Tell him to grow up ! Life isn't fair

I agree with how others are making sense of the situation relating to his childhood and feeling maybe abandoned by you when his sister wasn’t so he’s seeking out a repair experience. But it’s also not acceptable in my opinion for him to go about it how he is, trying to bully and guilt you into giving him more money. I don’t imagine these dynamics will change without some family therapy, even a few sessions could make a big difference. If he isn’t willing to do that with you I would probably set some boundaries around the money and acceptance about the relationship. I understand you asking “but what should I actually do”, saying prioritise him and love him is all well and good but what would he see you doing that lets him know that’s happening? I hear you struggling to know what the tangible actions are other than him trying to control your contact with her daughter or give him money. I’m not sure it will be enough for him even if you did give up that day with your daughters children.

Both of those things are manipulative.

1. Trying to make it so you see your DD's kids less but not letting you see his children on the weekend.

2. Money is just another way to guilt trip and manipulate you. If you gave him every last penny you had, he would still want more. Put that money towards counselling for you both. Stop giving either of your children "shoe money" and stop "lending" money to your son.

You did the best you could at the time. I wonder how your DS is doing with his children? Maybe they will be on him when they grow-up, since he seems to live a live of bitterness and revenge.

I think you’ve been very honest about shortcomings during your son’s childhood, and at least he had a stable home with his grandmother. Agree that part of him is trying to get you to compensate for that time - but I also think he’s playing on your feelings of guilt. He’s a grown adult with children of his own , and you are lending him money he can’t afford. I’d stop prividing material things behind your means , and clear that with him - at the same time offering time and energy instead ( for them to come to yours for a meal/ to babysit his children etc ) I’m sorry some people here are dragging up the past and condemning you for it- you can only move forward from where you are , and torturing yourself to try and compensate for past mistakes is going to be good for no one in the family.

What I'm getting from OP's posts is that basically DS was a PITA from the start. And I do think the behaviour of some babies and kids makes them less immediately likeable than others.

In my limited experience, boys can be more boisterous, demanding and physical than small girls - which if it's not understood and responded to properly with firm boundaries, consistency etc, can spiral into bullying, aggressive behaviour. My aunties told me that my brother caused my mum endless grief, throwing nappies at her, screaming, hitting etc. I was the dream second baby, quiet, affectionate, a relief to my poor mum. (Though was myself also at the mercy of older brother.)

I see another similarity too, in that my mum was mostly on her own, her marriage was breaking down and she was 'suffering from nerves' in the parlance of the times (probably PND). A conscientious, kind-hearted and easy-going person herself - like OP sounds - I think my mum had no idea what to do when confronted with a raging little boy, to the detriment of them both.

Now I think of it, another similarity was that my brother loved his Grandma, and was much more respectful, helpful and relaxed with her. He'd much rather spend time with her than us too. Just like OP's DS. And I bet he hated school, OP?!

40-plus years ago, mothers did their best, but without the support or parenting skills that we now know are so important, they didn't stand a chance with 'difficult' children. Now we know so much more about child development, and mental health generally. OP and her son need to access this knowledge to get out of this toxic stuckness and move on with their own lives.

@Appleteeth I had an extremely fcuked up childhood with both parents, and wider family not emotionally available in different ways to your situation however with the same result as underlying anger and resentments towards my late mom. My father died when I was 18.

I didn't realise I was an angry adult carrying resentment from the past. I made my late mom pay through money.

I have now worked through all my issues having been in and out of therapy for the past 20 years plus being in a 12-step program.

I think the problem here isn't your acknowledgement of what happened. You are clear on your responsibilities. The problem is how you put boundaries in place with your son.

Your son needs to also get therapy. It's clear he is still messed up understandably however he is now an adult, and he is accountable for how is dealing with this.

His pain is his pain. I'm not dismissing it however he needs to take a good look around at children who really are dragged up. He isn't going to change his behaviour unless he given a reason. He sees you as a cash cow. You have read a bit here about me so I recognise what is happening for him
.
You enabling him (like my mom did me) is keeping him stuck in petulant child mode. You can't change the past. You have acknowledged it. Now he needs to take it into therapy is my experience of what worked for me.

Maybe look at some therapy for you too. You made mistakes. Who the fcuk hasn't. You and your mom, his gran bought him up. You were still there for him. It wasn't perfect. Alot of people who would be very happy with that childhood even though you were working..

You need support too cos you need to come to terms with this too. Take this from someone whose knows both sides of the equation

I wish you well

This is more about his childhood than now. You are arguing about the technicalities and his heart is screaming about how he grew up. I would stop trying to argue back or rationalise what you do or don't do and focus on how you can repair your relationship and what he needs around that. Could you look at some family counselling.

Don't do this!!! Keep having dds kids on a Wednesday.

He needs some serious counselling.

He had a hard time but he had a stable adult who loved him and he lives with.

Many people have worse and don't act like this.

It's ok to day no to him you know.

This man is abusing his mother and his grandmother. He’s taking money from both of them and not paying it back, and he’s making unreasonable demands on OP about restricting how often she sees her DD - to the point where he’s withholding OP’s access to his own children unless she agrees to give up babysitting for her, even though her job depends on it. This is nothing to do with his heart ‘screaming’. It’s coercive control and manipulation - abuse. And it’s designed to destroy the relationship between OP and her DD.

DS wasn’t abandoned as a child. He lived with his grandmother and OP was around and working to support him. Was it ideal ? No. But you work with what you have at the time. He’s a grown arsed man and he needs to deal with his own feelings instead of using them to essentially blackmail the two people who did their best under difficult circumstances.

The very first rule of therapy is that you do not attend counselling with your abuser. No counsellor would agree to it because it provides a setting for the abuser to manipulate and control the narrative.

I’d suggest that counselling is appropriate for all of them, because there are definitely issues to be worked out here, but separately. And in the meantime OP should be refusing to give either DD or DS any more money - that’s a given.

The number of posters essentially telling OP she deserves this and should give in to his batshit demands is shocking.

I really do wish people would stop suggesting family therapy. OP’s son is exercising coercive control over both his mother and grandmother - he’s extorting money from them and making threats to withhold access to his own children unless they do as he says. That’s emotional blackmail as well as financial abuse. Family therapy is absolutely not appropriate for this situation.

They all have issues that need to be worked through so separate therapy for them all would be appropriate, but OP, GM and DD should not be put together in a therapy setting where DS - essentially their abuser - is in a position to manipulate and control the narrative.

I have an older child who was raised by my parents while I worked and they see their childhood very differently to how I do..
My later 2 children did not have the closeness or bond with my parents as the other child. I took them all on holiday together, it was usually the eldest who would cause chaos, be rude, run away and try to ruin things. They were treated no differently to my other two. I get that she resented me for working but I was a lone parent from day 1 who had to put food on the table and keep a roof over our heads.
The eldest never went without and if anything, was spoilt by my parents. If you heard them speak about their childhood you would think it was awful, dragged up but that really was not the case.
I no longer have a relationship with my eldest, their choice for the last 5 years.. It absolutely kills me inside. I did the best I could for them and even as an adult I still did all that I could to help and guide them.

@BeZippyZebra do you mean raised by gps in same way in that they lived with your parents and never really with you, but then with your 2nd family, the dc lived together with you?

The title of you post is interesting. You seem to think he is being unfair. Clearly he was treated unfairly when he was growing up in terms of his upbringing not being conventional, compared to your daughter. You basically abandoned him to the care of your mother, and yet raised you daughter yourself, and indirectly gave her advantages like access to hobbies and university leading to her ability to have a more comfortable life than he seems to have.

Unfortunately life isn't fair. I don't think the underlying problem can be countered simply by saying you spent and continued to spend the same amount of money on each of them., You can't buy your way out of any feelings of guilt , and he should not be trying to extort cash out of you by playing on that guilt you may be feeling.

I think his underlying issue is about the lack of opportunities he had for a conventional childhood when his sister had that opportunity and has been able to follow a more conventional pathway and has received help from her partner/ husband's family to buy a property etc. . Help that he hasn't had, and presumably you couldnt afford to match at the time..

How is his relationship with his sister? And his grandmother,?

Have you asked him how you could help in different ways other than money? I think you could do more to help him sort out his troubled mind as giving cash isn't working for either of you and is fuelling unhealthy demands. Maybe you could offer to organise some family counselling sessions which he may reject as a waste of time and money but I do think some talking therapy might help him feel listened to.

Eesh, that just makes him a weirdo.
Sorry misread, thanks for making him even more ridiculous 😜