AIBU to feel my son is unfairly comparing support?

[Appleteeth]

Hi all, first of all I want to make it clear I’m not by any means saying I have been a good mother to my son, or that he doesn’t have every right to resent me for that, I don’t want this to read as woe is me.

Background
I have 2 children they are 41 and 26, I had my first child at 21, he was for the most part raised by my mother, I was completing my nursing degree then doing shift work, I provided for him financially, took him on holiday etc, but I will admit my mother did the vast majority of the day to day care. When he was 11 he wanted to try and live with me and my then partner, he moved in for 6 months but was having problems at school, we then trialled by partner moving out, nothing improved and he insisted he wanted to go back to his grans. So he did, my partner then moved back in.
3 years later my partner and I had our daughter, her father then left and never returned when she was 6 so I raised her alone.

Lately my son has increasingly been talking about the the injustice of his childhood, how DD did more hobbies than him, how the only reason DD now owns a home is because she had more support.

1. There was little in the way of financial disparity, actually I think my son got more money spent on him over all, he had a summer holiday every year, was taken abroad etc.
2. He always had the most fashionable clothes and toys, my mother and I worked extremely hard to ensure this

Yes DD did more hobbies, but my son never actually wanted to as a child, and as a result the last time DD left the country for a family holiday in childhood she was 4, we didn’t do a single holiday between 4 and 11, not even a uk break. DDs birthday and Christmas gifts were often made up of whatever she needed for hobbies that year.

She did go on to go to university being the first in our family to do so, got married and now has children.

She owns a home but I had no involvement in this at all, she and her partner (who had been together since they were 14 saved, and received help from his family, I didn’t have any money to offer).

Now I’m mortgage free but not very high earning as I left nursing for my own health 20 years ago.

I make no difference in the gifts I give to my son’s children and my daughters. I pay for us all to go on holiday once a year (just a uk break).

My son also borrows money every month which he doesn’t always pay back in full but I’ve accepted this.

This afternoon my son came over and he was complaining that his sons didn’t have their proper PE kit and went back to school last week, I told him I don’t have anymore money to give him, he has already had £400 this month and still owes me money from last month.

He then went on a rant that he knows I spent more on my daughter’s children’s school shoes than I did on his sons. This is true but I didn’t do it deliberately, I told them both I could afford £50 per child on school shoes, DD bought her children shoes from start rite so she spent it all, he sent me a link to some shoes which were only £30, I ordered exactly what he sent me.

This then spiralled into me apparently loving my DDs children more than his! This isn’t true at all. I see DDs children a little more as she is in the same town as me and a walk away, I babysit them one day a week for 2 hours and they come over for dinner once a week. I see my son’s children once a week as he brings them over and I try to stop in and see them when I can but it’s a bus away and I’m still working. He also asks me not to come to his ok the weekend so the only option is either the day I already have DDs children or after work. I have offered him babysitting countless times and he always says no he will get his partners mum to do it.

I don’t know what to do?

AIBU to feel I’m not currently doing anything wrong even if in the past I did mess up in having my mum raise him?

Im open to advice!

Even if you had looked after him full time, pretty sure he would still resent you. Sounds like he is angry for the lack of dear dad. Your dd did nothing, she didn't chose to be born. For him to treat her and her children the way he does is digusting.
You need to stop giving him money and so does your mum. Also maybe he's just waiting for a house when either of you dies.
He's an adult and a father he needs to grow up. You've already said you had a heart to heart and apologised to him well then he's just using you now and taking advantage by constantly taking money from you and your mother. Don't let him make you treat your daughter unjustly be giving him money he never pays back! Also make sure your will and your mother's will is iron clad and just and fair.

The fact that you'rs financially supporting either of your adult children is ridiculous and your son is using emotional blackmail. He's a middle aged men for gods sake!

His attitude is not due to his home life. He was always loved, supported and cared for. The problem is his. He thinks the World owes him and it doesn't. No one on this Earth has had the magical childhood that they wanted. You cannot change his childhood, it is what it is. Full Stop.

What he is now is a sponger and someone that has a chip on his shoulder. You cannot change that and probably he was aways going to be like this. Do not damage your relationship with your DD for his benefit. Something will always be wrong for him. Let him wallow in his own debt and tell him that. Also tell him that you will not carry his grief over what might have been and the clock cannot be turned back.

You did your best at the time and that is all anyone can expect or hope for. We all have problems to face and so does he. Tough for him and it was tough for you. Do not let this man run you down. Ignore his woe is me attitude and tell him he is no longer a child and has to get on with his life and earn his own money.

To be honest you probably can’t undo this. Because he’s clearly hurting from the fact that you haven’t raised him really but raised your daughter. He’s expressing it through money or attention to grandchildren but that’s the root cause of it.

you can try family therapy to improve your relationship but some things will not change.

what I can say from being upset at my mother (for a totally different reason) - unfortunately you’ll just have to take his hurt and listen to it and never try to defend yourself or argue back rationally. Because 1) it is not rational, it is about deep emotional trauma and 2) justifying and defending means that you are not accepting responsibility for the damage you caused. I don’t mean you need to listen to abusive words, you should calmly draw the boundary there, I’m talking that he tells you - you didn’t love me as much, and you try to go on - oh, I was 21, I was doing my nursing degree, you had nice clothes etc. IT IS NOT ABOUT THAT

It will upset your daughter, and I agree that he'll just find something else to be angry about. It might please him for about 30 seconds that he's got his own way, but he won't be satisfied.

He sounds a troubled young man. He needs counselling or something. I'm not sure what else you can do. I don't think he knows what he wants either. Apart from ruining your relationship with your daughter, I think he'd like that.

He clearly has some money troubles; it's disappointing that the last time you gave him money for shoes, the children didn't get their shoes.

It sounds as if you did your best in crappy circumstances when he was a child. You were working to make ends meet, not off partying for goodness sake. It wasn't ideal, but you were very young and he was with his gran where he was loved and safe.

This might sound harsh, I'll put my crash helmet on for what I'm about to say, but tough love and a harsh talking to might not go amiss with this man-brat. He's old enough to sort himself out, he works, apparently, and shouldn't be borrowing money from his mom or shouting at his gran for money. He's got some growing up to do. If he needs help, then he can get some help in the form of counselling and stop wallowing in pity and letting spite towards his innocent sister eat him up.

Honestly OP I don't think you can win with this one.
The past is what it is and it sounds like he deeply resents his sister for having you full time when he didn't.
This is a totally understandable emotion for a child to feel in the circumstances you have described, but it sounds like he has never dealt with it, despite the fact you have as acknowledged your mistakes and apologized to him for them.
BUT he is 100% using your guilt over that to pump you for money now. He is a 41 year old man with children, not a child anymore. I think you need to be a little blunt with him and tell him that you love them equally and have apologised for your mistakes in his past. You have tried to make it up to him in any way you can and offered to help with babysitting etc, but that love cannot be brought and even if it could... you're not rich enough to do so!
Ask him to put into words what it is HE needs from you that doesn't involve him wanting you to take something from his sister in order to "balance the scales" in his eyes. Cos until he processes the feelings of that inner child, there is NOTHING you can do that will be enough for him.

Also, some of these responses are pretty harsh given you were still in his day to day life and providing for him. You have admitted you didn't deal with it perfectly and people harping on about it and telling you to pander to his every whim now and the expense of your daughter are ridiculous. He is a grown arse adult with children of his own, he needs to find a way to come to terms with it, through therapy or conversations...not using your guilt for his financial gain.

Clap for yourself. You need a knighthood or something?

As someone that wasn’t raised by my parents but was sent gifts and nice things from time to time by them, I remember thinking I’d rather be with my parents and have no nice things. Unfortunately, I am not close to either parents and I’m 40 so similar age to your son.
My mother like you had another child, from what I heard (I was a child) lavished attention on her and sort of ignored me (she denies this). The brief time I spent with her in my early teens were the worst time of my life. I’m sure she will say it didn’t work out.
Coincidentally, her cousin was similar to my mum, had a daughter young but left her with her dad, became a lawyer, met and married another lawyer and had a son while her daughter was with her dad and step mother that didn’t really like her.
Im sorry things are the way they are with your son, you cannot change the past, he needs to step up and take responsibility for his family and move on. Thankfully I went to uni without my mothers help and have never needed anything from her, haven’t spoken to her in years because of the kind of person she is.
Hope you can reach a compromise with your son or there’s a risk you might lose him. Acknowledge your failings and maybe seek family counselling if he agrees. Best of luck.

I think so too. You abandoned him ‘for work’ and now you have a non working day that goes on his sister, I think you should give that non working day to his child. You can see dds child on the weekend, it just won’t be supporting her to work. I think this would be a very important gesture to him- effectively that you are actually able to prioritise him over his sister. I went through similar in my marriage recently, I’m an adult woman not an abandoned child and it mattered to me, it was fundamental.

I wouldn’t let your daughter down to try to pander to this man child. You made the choices you felt were right at the time. You could offer to go to counselling with him and try to get some sort of mediation. Don’t damage your relationship with your girl though. Tell him you’d love them to visit and the times you are available, and if he doesn’t want to work with that I think you need to step back. And stop giving him any bloody money!! Sounds like he is manipulating those around him.

adding, I’d tell him I’ll be doing this, but also that I am putting the money I give him towards some family therapy with him as I don’t seem able to find the words that resonate with him to say I love you and you’d like some help in saying that in a way that he feels it, as you don’t think he is. So you won’t have the money spare the next few months, but you can look after ds on the weekday.
One challenge here is if his partner is on board with him going off to therapy with his mum as she will have to be home with the dc when he does.

Sadly I think that you are right that he will find something else to be angry about. I think you are in an almost impossible position. Logic would say that if you do what he asks and show you value him equally with your daughter it would improve your relationship but it might equally lead to him coming up with another challenge. I understand why he feels hard done by but nothing that you did was based on malice. His demands, all on his very detailed terms, feel like blackmail. If you do decide to switch your childcare on Wednesday to him then I would be very clear, in writing, that you are doing this at his request, to allow you to spend time with him and his family. I would be very open with your daughter and mother that you are doing this as an attempt to mend fences. I wish that I believed that when he feels less resentful of your daughter he will allow you to bring both families together but I think he will find some other reason to object.
The money side of it is deeply worrying, you should not be supplementing his income. Presumably when you gave money for shoes and then had to give more the money had been spent on something else. Could you give vouchers rather than cash?
I think you need to set a time limit, possibly a year, to see if he changes in response to your efforts.

Her daughter probably earns more than £400 a month from the extra day a week she can work with free childcare and support. The op is prioritising her, and instead of putting her own time and love into ds like she is dd she is instead giving money. Probably less money, and ‘as a loan’ to the lesser child which is what the son quite reasonably feels she’s done all her life.

She is supplementing her dds income by enabling her to work without the associated childcare cost. She’s just using her love and time to do it instead of transferring money, and understandably he sees that as the op choosing her just like she always as. Her dd is an adult too, if he shouldn’t need the support nor should she.

You are right. He will swiftly find another way you are favouring DD, because it’s not about what’s happening now, it’s about what happened 25 years ago.

I wouldn’t mess up your relationship with your daughter in a futile attempt to mend your relationship with your son.

He needs a boatload of therapy, ideally both individual and with you. You might also benefit tbf - you seem clear eyed about the problems but struggling to work out what and how to move forward.

He’s a 41 year old man. I’d tell him to grow the fuck up tbh!

It would be helpful for you both to have some therapy together. It won’t be easy and very uncomfortable however, it would help greatly in the long run.

He's 41 and acting like a spoilt jealous kid. Borrowing £££`s each month and not repaying? Complaining about what is bought. Nope. He needs to grow up. Maybe he didn't live with you but he had a loving mum and grandmother. Many are far worse off.

I agree with others about not pandering to his demands around Wednesday arrangements with grandchildren, he’s lashing out and if there is no specific need for him to have this particular time I would be firm on declining. He is obviously and understandably very hurt like others I suggest paying for counselling and encouraging and supporting his efforts to better his circumstances like babysitting while he goes to college at night. Also maybe reach out to his partner and let them know u’r free at weekends, evenings and would love to help, drop over - a family WhatsApp for up just u, u’r son & his partner might be a positive thing is not already in place.

Yes this! But that doesn’t make it right

I’ll preface this by saying that the way your son is treating you now is completely out of order and you shouldn’t give in to any more bullying. But… I was also brought up by my grandparents. We lived 200 miles away from my mum and I seldom saw her. She also met my stepfather when I was 9 and started having me in the school holidays when I was 11 – spookily the same age as your son. It was too late by then – we were no longer mother and child in an emotional sense, because I’d twigged that she’d chosen our circumstances. 11 is a pivotal age for this. So really, in this scenario I am your son, OP – although my mum never tried to mend the situation when I was an adult, so you seem much more sensitive and humane than she ever was.
There was probably pressure from my grandparents to keep me, so my situation mirrors yours there too… However. I think I can illustrate to you how your son probably feels, and it’s this:
He does feel abandoned. I know you tried to see him as much as possible during your time off, but he feels abandoned because you COULD live without him. That was palatable to you. It was possible. You were able to do it. You didn’t love and need him so much that the two of you could never be parted. You COULD be parted from him, and you were. And now he has children of his own, he sees that very starkly. (You were too young, I know, but he possibly doesn’t get that.)
So here’s the thing that might save you from being my mum: admit it. Tell him you regret it, you were wrong, you don’t know what you were thinking, you slid into it. Don’t justify it, don’t give him silly work/time-related reasons… I think you’ve said you've tried to tell him some of this already, which is brilliant, but keep going over it. One thing my mum didn’t do though – sorry OP. She didn’t go off and have another child that she could actually stomach LIVING with. That would have destroyed me completely.
A glimmer of light – your son still cares enough to be showing the grievance, IYSWIM. By his age I’d long since checked out emotionally. I saw my mum at Christmas to pay lip service to family obligations, but we had zero relationship. It sounds like he still thinks of you as his mother. My grandparents were my parents, and when they died (in my late teens) I was on my own. Family therapy would be a good idea for both of you, because there’s still hope. You obviously do care, otherwise this thread wouldn’t exist. My mum would never have posted it!
I’m sorry he’s hounding you for money; that’s truly shameful.

It sounds like you have a good relationship with your daughter. Don’t spoil it. Your son sounds pretty awful actually and seems to be motivated out of spite or jealousy of your daughter. Doesn’t sound like his childhood was too bad tbh but he thinks he can guilt trip and manipulate you. Anyway he’s 46 now so that behaviour needs to stop. Ignore the pile on - Mumsnetters love an opportunity to take the moral high ground. Most are being very selective about what you’ve written anyway.

He sounds like a complete man child, I think I’d tell him to either try therapy or get a grip whenever he starts. I wouldn’t send him money and I would definitely not ‘prioritise’ him on the day you have your other grandchildren. Crazy talk from some PPs, I have to believe they think he is 14 and not 41.

His childhood sounds a hundred thousand times better than mine and I would never contemplate taking it out on anyone like that, let alone my innocent younger sister and nieces and nephews. Especially not at the big old age of 41! He should be embarrassed.

I've been thinking about this thread tonight, and read your posts back to back, OP.

There's no mention of your love for your son. Not when he was a child, or now. There's criticism of him, there's little signals to feed the thread such as 'he was the one who asked to go back to his grans' and stuff about him needing/wasting money, resenting his sister and so on, but virtually nothing about the fundamental things like love, emotions and so on.

You've said you should have done things differently, and that seems to be the point of the thread, but there seems to be a lot missing from all this. It's all money, babysitting, shoes, what you bought him as a kid.

I've reflected, but still feel very sorry for your son, not matter how flawed he is.

I agree.

I almost posted something very similar last night.

Hope you can find some way to sort it out, OP