AIBU to feel my son is unfairly comparing support?

[Appleteeth]

Hi all, first of all I want to make it clear I’m not by any means saying I have been a good mother to my son, or that he doesn’t have every right to resent me for that, I don’t want this to read as woe is me.

Background
I have 2 children they are 41 and 26, I had my first child at 21, he was for the most part raised by my mother, I was completing my nursing degree then doing shift work, I provided for him financially, took him on holiday etc, but I will admit my mother did the vast majority of the day to day care. When he was 11 he wanted to try and live with me and my then partner, he moved in for 6 months but was having problems at school, we then trialled by partner moving out, nothing improved and he insisted he wanted to go back to his grans. So he did, my partner then moved back in.
3 years later my partner and I had our daughter, her father then left and never returned when she was 6 so I raised her alone.

Lately my son has increasingly been talking about the the injustice of his childhood, how DD did more hobbies than him, how the only reason DD now owns a home is because she had more support.

1. There was little in the way of financial disparity, actually I think my son got more money spent on him over all, he had a summer holiday every year, was taken abroad etc.
2. He always had the most fashionable clothes and toys, my mother and I worked extremely hard to ensure this

Yes DD did more hobbies, but my son never actually wanted to as a child, and as a result the last time DD left the country for a family holiday in childhood she was 4, we didn’t do a single holiday between 4 and 11, not even a uk break. DDs birthday and Christmas gifts were often made up of whatever she needed for hobbies that year.

She did go on to go to university being the first in our family to do so, got married and now has children.

She owns a home but I had no involvement in this at all, she and her partner (who had been together since they were 14 saved, and received help from his family, I didn’t have any money to offer).

Now I’m mortgage free but not very high earning as I left nursing for my own health 20 years ago.

I make no difference in the gifts I give to my son’s children and my daughters. I pay for us all to go on holiday once a year (just a uk break).

My son also borrows money every month which he doesn’t always pay back in full but I’ve accepted this.

This afternoon my son came over and he was complaining that his sons didn’t have their proper PE kit and went back to school last week, I told him I don’t have anymore money to give him, he has already had £400 this month and still owes me money from last month.

He then went on a rant that he knows I spent more on my daughter’s children’s school shoes than I did on his sons. This is true but I didn’t do it deliberately, I told them both I could afford £50 per child on school shoes, DD bought her children shoes from start rite so she spent it all, he sent me a link to some shoes which were only £30, I ordered exactly what he sent me.

This then spiralled into me apparently loving my DDs children more than his! This isn’t true at all. I see DDs children a little more as she is in the same town as me and a walk away, I babysit them one day a week for 2 hours and they come over for dinner once a week. I see my son’s children once a week as he brings them over and I try to stop in and see them when I can but it’s a bus away and I’m still working. He also asks me not to come to his ok the weekend so the only option is either the day I already have DDs children or after work. I have offered him babysitting countless times and he always says no he will get his partners mum to do it.

I don’t know what to do?

AIBU to feel I’m not currently doing anything wrong even if in the past I did mess up in having my mum raise him?

Im open to advice!

He’s hurt/hurting however that is not an excuse to financially abuse and blackmail you.

Im not judging but this is probably true. Deep down he thinks because your DD always lived with you and he had to live with your Mum even after you completed your degree and had your DD, that you have never loved him as much. What happens to a child in their childhood has life long consequences. I'd have given them the £50 per child for shoes then he wouldn't have felt your daughter's DC had more. Can you try to spend more time with him to compensate for him not living with you as a DC when your DD did.

What that man needs is therapy.
He isn't a child anymore, he's very much an adult. And I feel he's using his childhood to manipulate you financially.
And because you carry some guilt you're accepting it.
An open and frank conversation surely is needed.
As a grown man you'd expect him to be able to view his childhood from the point of view of an adult and not the confused child he was then.

You’d have to be blind or severely lacking in emotional intelligence not to realise this isn’t about the shoes

I actually would not stop babysitting for your daughter.

I understand he is probably hurting. But is he going to punish his sister and you forever?

I would also stop lending(giving) him money every month.

Tell him that you would like to try family therapy to try and work through the issues.

He is being completely unreasonable. Do not keep giving into his demands. You have apologised countless times and can’t change the past. He is just trying to get what he can out of you and hurt you.

Your son is 41. He needs to let all of that go. And no amount of money or self-flagellation will help you, OP.

He’s a grown man who sounds insanely jealous of his much younger sister. He’s using you to try to get one up on her, or punish her in some way.

I really don’t think you should give in to his manipulation and attempts at emotional blackmail, OP. He needs to go to therapy. Maybe you could offer to go to some kind of family therapy with him?

Plenty of people had horrible childhoods. But he’s an adult now and he needs to work on himself before he can ever be happy.

Agree. It sounds like he's emotionally still the child who feels his mum doesn't love or care about him and who favours his sister. He needs help to accept what happened and try to move on as an adult. He needs to accept he can't change what you did.
He's still got all the hurt inside and is processing it as a little boy which isn't his fault. He still 'sees' you favouring his sister over him.

Yeah his childhood wasn't ideal but now he's a grown man and still acting the spoilt brat, spitting his dummy out of the pram. Him refusing to be around his nieces and nephews is awful and claiming that your DD is the favourite is petty and childish. Tell him to get some much needed therapy and to quit this silliness now, he is too old for it.

As for 'borrowing' that much money a month, there has to be a gambling problem or something going on there. I know you feel guilty, but it's 100% okay to say NO to lending any more money

@Appleteeth tbh he sounds really controlling to me. You can't turn the clock back and he is just using your guilt to get money from you and your mother. He is definitely trying to wreck the relationship between you and your daughter. You gave him the choice of where to live as a child and he picked your mother's house after living with you. Clearly he didn't want the boundaries at yours.
Don't let him be controlling with you.

I'd try one last time to talk/explain, tell him you know you made mistakes with regards to his childhood and that you've apologised a thousand times. That you recognise his sister had a different one, & that wasn't her fault. Neither is it any of the grandchildren. I'd go on to say that all he seems interested in is how much money he can receive off you. That you want to see both sets of grandchildren, that you understand he's not available on a weekend. But if you can work something out re seeing them, that would be great. Also tell him that he can't make you feel any worse regarding past decisions than you already do, but you aren't prepared to keep being used in this way by him.

If he's not prepared to accept what happened, realise nothing can change the past & move on, for your own sanity you may have to move on. Personally I wouldn't keep giving her chunks of money each month, if you can't afford it. He is using your pain for his gain.

I hope you get peace with this.

Remember children of any age can be manipulative.

Hi OP. I think some are being harsh. I agree he’s probably trying to process emotions from the past. At the time he was a kid and didn’t think about. Now he’s and adult he’s reliving it and comparing with his sister. Doesn’t seem to be many good male role models around - his grandfather was absent, his father I assume and then your partner as well.

you can’t go back and change the past but could you suggest family therapy or counselling?

don’t change the Wednesday plan. Your DD hasn’t done anything wrong and he’ll move on to another issue. Don’t lose them too.

You did the best you could when you were a young mother and you sound like a good person doing the best you can now. Your son however is still angry and there is little you can do about that just love him as best you can now. Don’t beat yourself up about this.

As you've said OP, you can't go back and change the past. No child has perfectly equal treatment from their parents. I get how feels that he hasn't had the same 'mum' relationship with you as your daughter has had in terms of time with you, but I don't think it sounds like he went without. He had, in effect, two mums, one of whom spoiled him and set no boundaries, the other spent as much time with him as she could, showing up for the important things and taking him on holiday and doing what she could in the circumstances.
You have apologised, you regularly give him money, you offer to come and spend time with him and his family (which he puts conditions on)
It sounds like he is punishing you and that whatever you do, it will never be enough.
He is 41, he is not a child. I think he needs to do a bit of reflection about how terrible or unjust his situation actually is - he was not abandoned, you ensured he had what he needed as a child. He should probably go and see a therapist to work out his issues. Maybe, as other have suggested, you should go together. Because otherwise this is only going to get worse and damage your relationship with him, and with your daughter (who has done nothing wrong BTW)
It is a difference in upbringing, not a great injustice. Especially when you read about some of the awful things parents have done to people as children on here all the time.

OP…I can’t understand why 79% (currently) say you are not being unreasonable, then there’s a pile-on of responders savaging your choices as his mother. At 21 I know I was way too young to have a child, as would my own kids have been, and I feel for you. By prioritising training/work, you gave yourself a better shot at life and though not ideal he had the love and support of both yourself and your mother. You are doing your best to show him love now, and to make it better. But as you said, we can’t turn back the clock and I think he needs to take responsibility for his own parenting…absolutely help him out (and your daughter too) financially with his kids’ school stuff/living expenses if that’s what you want to do, but it seems clear he isn’t planning to pay it all back (presumably he’s not able to?), and is making comparisons with your outlay on your DD’s children to make you feel bad, when you’re clearly spending more on him and it’s a constant. He resents the fact your daughter got your undivided attention growing up, and he never did. All you can do is love him as best you can. Good luck

His sad and angry feelings may not be about money, but about you spending more time with DD than with him in the important early years.

There’s alot that’s gone wrong on both sides.

As you admit you made a huge mistake in not raising your own child, realistically he was your responsibility, he should have been under your roof since you lived in your own place and babysat elsewhere when you worked (maybe your mum, maybe nursery or similar), instead of living elsewhere full time and seeing you when you were available. To him your DD had you as a parent from day 1, she wasn’t handed off to someone else, she was prioritised in your home and when It came to your time, for him growing up work was the priority, not him. It also sounds like his relationship with you from a child was money orientated (holidays, new/better clothes etc) so present day it makes sense why this is part of the ‘attention’ he’s asking for.

He’s been through a lot as a child yes but as an adult in his early 40s he needs to work through what happened with some form of therapy so he can get past the resentment he has towards you and his sister/sisters children (ultimately all his sister did was be born and her children have done nothing to be hated). It seems instead of looking to work past it he’s keeping things in a state in which he can benefit monetarily because he knows you’ll fix his issues with money, it’s always been that way. If he had a massive interest in what he’s asking for outside of that (time spent with children being equal, time spent with him etc) then he’d stop refusing weekend visits, stop saying no to babysitting offers and try and work with you to figure something out, but he isn’t, because let’s face it, when he’s unhappy with you and he asks for cash, you’re not going to say no.

Going forward I’d lessen the monetary help since you have no idea what it’s paying for, it’s hundreds a month you’re handing over every month while he works and gets money from your mother too. Start alternating Wednesdays with his and your DDs kids, that way it’s an equal split, which is what he wants. Keep offering to babysit regardless of the fact he says no, then nothing can be argued about you offering more to your DD. When it comes to money for the children, like the school shoes, just send it straight to him and your DD, same amount to both and it’s their responsibility to buy the shoes then there’s no discrepancy to complain about. When it comes to Christmas and birthdays tell them both how much is available for their kids and ask what they’d like or need, continue to alternate who you spend it with, make a point of keeping things fair. I’d also stop trying to push for him to have a relationship with DD and/or her kids for now, in his mind DD has always been favoured so this is just going to continue that idea, then there’s also no open there for the fairness argument to resurface. Take it slowly, maybe find out his interests as an adult and try and do things he would also enjoy on some of those Wednesdays so he knows you care and are trying. It’s a slow process, but honestly money isn’t the answer.

hes A grown ass man and using you as a piggy bank, yes his upbringing isn't traditional but there's been lots and lots of others raised by their grandparents who don't behave like this. Send him to counselling rather than giving him money. He's used to you giving him everything he wanted as a child and he still wants it now, he's not bothered about actually seeing you otherwise he'd happily have you visit on a weekend! It looks like you're trying to make up for the past with money which I don't think is a healthy way to do it. You've apologised and you're showing up for him (not just with money) there's nothing else you can or should be doing, just keep persevering, speaking to him but I wouldn't be giving him hundreds a month when he doesn't even pay back

@Appleteeth it sounds like your DS has a very big problem, not just with you, but with your DM and his sister, and probably with "the world" in general. I don't think, based on what you've told us, that any tinkering you do with how much, what days, etc. you give him childcare or money or attention will heal the hurt he is feeling. I think, as other PP have suggested, that you all need some sort of family therapy. But he probably won't agree to that -- at least not right away. But he might agree to go to therapy with you. I'd try to arrange that before I started twisting everything else you do around to fit his insatiable need to have your full undiverted love and attention. It's a very difficult situation and may not be repairable. I wish you luck and patience.

He’s setting you up to fail…it’s like a Herculean task.

Holier than thou parents here! She was in university building a career, then clearly took up a heavy job in nursing. She hardly left him to sit in a crack den! He was safe and loved and had a great relationship growing up with his mother from what I have read. Things aren’t black and white for a lot of people. As parents, we should know how quickly time moves when we have children. OP clearly stated she moved her boyfriend out so DS can move in, he was clearly settled at his Nans house and decided to move back.

So up until now, he’s been absolutely fine in life and has exploded over money, which he seems terrible at handling and borrowing every month. He’s a grown ass man whose mother did the best she could at the time. Would you judge mothers the same who place their babies up for adoption? Quite a few comments here and I can’t be bothered to read them all, but has anyone asked where TF his dad is in all this? Or is it just death by firing squad to OP? Sometimes people aren’t upset with things in life, until money is involved. It’s sure as hell sounds this way to me!

Your son doesn't want to see you, he wants you to feel guilty and to prioritise him over your daughter who he can't stand.

He is demanding money every month from both you and his Grandmother and probably not paying either of you back fully. Things are very expensive but if you haven't got it, you can't get into debt for him. He doesn't even want you to visit like, he wants everything on his terms. You have more than covered the difference in shoes, he just knows that's how to manipulate you, by accusing you of spending more on your daughter.

I would just say no when you don't have the money, ignore his petty demands for you to treat your daughter unfairly when you're not doing as much for her already.

Your son had a difficult childhood, in his mind, but he is now a fully grown adult and must take ownership of his life choices. I would just keep repeating...I always loved you and I made the choices I thought were best at the time.

This is absolutely bang on. He’s a grown ass man. If he can’t recognise his need for therapy then there’s no hope. If this were a partner people would tell you to leave him. Unless you don’t mind being thoroughly abused in many ways, and more and more as you become older and more vulnerable, then get him out of your life now. It could be the biggest favour you ever do him. I know it’s horribly difficult but I fear for you.

@HappyWelsh glad to see the phrase “grown ass man” in your post too, thought it was just me 🤭

Offer to give another £20 per child to make up thr difference between what you spent of DDs children's shoes and his.
Stop lending him money.
Have an open conversation woth him about the past and how much you regret it -if you do)
Financially your DD may have had the same or less than him but this isn't really about finances its about time and attention and love.
Maybe your DD did better than him because she came from a more secure, stable and loving environment with a present mother?
Or maybe thats coincidence, im sure your mum did the best by him but him wanting.to live with you at 11 ( for the first time?) the situation with the BF , dds dad, him going back to your mums sounds very unstable and upsetting .
Financially it sounds like you are being completely fair. But its not really about the money.
But it does sound like he may be trying to manipulate you.