AIBU to feel uneasy about mothers leaving successful careers?

[Toodledootwo]

All my friends are quitting their successful career jobs after having children. They all seem to be throwing their hands in the air saying what’s the point. Is there a revolt happening against women working? It seems we were encouraged to get to work and be independent….but when becoming a mother….still be that mother, still be that provider till burn out?

Very hard to get back in after 2-3 years let alone 10. You're basically starting afresh but with ageism/ motherhoodism against you.

I’m not offended or triggered. It’s possible to challenge people without being either of those things.

I do object to people suggesting that working parents aren’t ’there’ for their children though. There is more to being a parent than being physically in their presence all of the time. ‘Being there’ also includes providing a roof over their head, food, clothes, choosing appropriate childcare and schooling, paying for extra curricular activities…

Is the suggestion that families with a SAHP generally aren’t also financially providing for their children?

Of course you can be there in the abstract, but you are physically there for less time if you work a FT role. That’s just factual.
There’s no need to jump to “it’s not always better” unless you’re offended by that.
It is better for some families for someone to physically be around much of the time and that’s fine.

Agree
Also if both parents pull their parenting weight then it is possible to " be there"
Both WP
Always a parent present , no childcare, no need to give up my hard worked for career

But what does “being there” actually mean? Once a child is at school “being there” is a far more minimal and questionable need anyway, surely?

Pre school you are talking about two to three hours in the evening after nursery, much of it which will be consumed with domestic duties such as preparing meals and ensuring children are bathed. There may be extracurriculars too.

I collected my DD from her childminder, who was a highly trusted and loved person, at 5pm and we were home together before 6 and did the same things that a SAHM would have done in the evenings.

You can argue the toss about children who are very young (ie under about two) being in nursery (I had to do this as a single parent so no guilt from me but I can understand the anxiety). But really you are talking about at most two and a half years of extra time at home with children, much of it consumed with domestic labour anyway.

I understand why parents who don’t have to work would choose to sit work out for this period. It’s far less stressful for all concerned that they don’t have to run out of the house in the morning and have a commute. I get why people who don’t have to be away from their children would choose not to. Fair enough.

But I don’t buy the argument that depriving kids of this two to three years period having the middle part of the day watching their mum run a hoover around while they watch kids TV or go to the park is so detrimental. Certainly the case is far from clear that this is worth jeopardising a rewarding and lucrative career for.

The SAHP isn’t contributing financially but they are pulling their weight as a parent in a different way. It’s not a better or worse way of choosing to structure your family, it’s just different.

That’s the point I’m making, I responded to a post that said choosing to be there for your children is more important than working. I’m simply pointing out that it’s not the case but that it’s just a different way of being a parent. Both are equally valid.

I feel like you think I'm judging people who work and bring up children.

If I wasn't clear, let me set it out plainly. Some women want to be at home full-time and look after their children themselves all the time, and have the means to do it because they have had high salaries, or because the children's father has the means. As one friend told me, "I didn't have children to have someone else look after them." It is a valid choice when people have the means.

I am not criticising anyone for their parenting choices, I was explaining that some women really want to look after their children full-time, even if they have satisfying, well-paid careers.

MN can be so judgy.

Exactly. My child has had a parent home for the whole 6 week holiday. Both of us work full time but between very generous annual leave, flexible working and WFH we’ve managed to ‘be there’ physically.
In previous years we’ve used holiday clubs but mainly due to him being an only child and us wanting him to have days with his friends. Now he’s 12 he organises his own days out and I hardly see him 😂

I understand your point and I totally support women who have the means to stop work to bring their children up in doing so.

But I just want to put on record how offensive this phrase “I didn’t have children to have someone else look after them” is.

No one has children to have someone else look after them. Most of us feel resentful at various points that we can’t be with our own children. We do it because we have to. I was a single parent and had to work brutal hours because my husband became abusive.

Please please, I completely understand what you’re saying but please don’t use this hideous phrase.

It was a very judgmental comment tbf, I’m
not sure how else you expect people to take it?

Of course it’s fine for women to choose to give up work to care for their children just like it’s fine to continue working.

Both choices mean you are still bring up your children. Using childcare doesn’t mean you aren’t raising your children, you’re just doing it differently.

I always wonder about the men in those set ups though. DH and I both did compressed hours so we could both have plenty of time with the children while both maintaining our financial independence.

Whereas I barely saw my dad growing up. I am proud of his professional achievements and the financial comfort he provided for us but I wish there had been more balance in the parenting /earning dynamic.

Pre school you are talking about two to three hours in the evening after nursery, much of it which will be consumed with domestic duties such as preparing meals and ensuring children are bathed.
No idea what you are talking about, you would only have 2/3 hours with your child in the evening if they were in a daycare nursery.
A school nursery is only a handful of hours a day in comparison to a private nursery and you have much, much more than 2 hours a day with your child.

at 5pm and we were home together before 6 and did the same things that a SAHM would have done in the evenings.
Sure, you did the same things from 6pm. Stay at home parents collect their children straight from school most of the time, both parents aren’t doing the same thing with their children over the course of the day, obviously.

You seem to be making an odd point, that sahp’s don’t really spend much more time with their children than parents who work full time which just seems bizarre to me. Of course they physically spend more time with their children in the vast majority of cases, no breakfast club, no day care, no childminders, no misc after school club for childcare purposes.
And why are you reducing a sahp’s time to shoving their children in front of the TV while they hoover? You seem intent on minimising the many hours a sahp will spend with their children on average than a FT working parent. It’s odd. You can chose to work without being disparaging of others, it’s just farcical to claim sahp’s barely spend more time with their children and if they do they are shoved in front of the tv?

Yes, agreed but it’s a very personal decision.

I stopped working after DD2 was born. DD1 was only 18 months old. It had been really hard when I returned to work after DD1. Trying to manage it all - and be pregnant - was utterly exhausting. I didn’t want to walk away from my career! I was 41. Successful. Enjoyed my work. But for me … I knew something was going to suffer. I retrained in a field that had always interested me but didn’t pay so well and began working as a consultant. 18 years on, I have no regrets but I truly did mourn the career that I worked so hard to establish

Do whatever suits. Just as long as the working parent is covering 2 sets of pensions and contributes to an independent savings pot for the non working parent then it’s all good.

My personal preference is for financial independence. I’d feel anxious without it so I’m a working parent. I did have extended maternity leave (thanks to my savings) and have taken breaks since and it is significantly easier so I do get the attraction. But despite the easier life it’s still important to me to work.

Sorry, I should have reiterated for this woman it is entirely a choice - she said as much. If you have no other option, then you do what you have to do and should never feel guilty for it.

It will differ from family to family, some father’s with both parents working barely spend time with their children. It’s not a given a father spends more time with their children because a mother works, I think in many cases the mother working isn’t actually a factor when it comes to how involved a father is. I know plenty of fairly absent dads where the mother works FT and is the one packing all the bags, doing all the dropping off, ferrying around, picking up, sick days.

In our case DH is out of the house until 6pm two days a week, 5 pm one day due to shorter hours and WFH the other two. I wouldn’t call that ‘barely seeing’ the children but also I personally wouldn’t want us both to be out for that time.
Other than working hours he’s just as involved as I am, from roughly 8-6 I do everything child related and house related and the rest of the time, including his lunch break when WFH he’s equally involved. Including taking time out for things regarding the kids, scheduling his annual leave to coincide with the kids, and splitting a recent full week stay in hospital with the youngest DC.

I think the “I never seen my dad growing up” thing was more a product of attitudes of the time rather than because the father worked.

I didn't use the phrase my friend did, FFS.

Honestly! When did MN get so horrible about things OTHER PEOPLE SAID?

I wasn't judging anyone. I merely said that some women stop working because they want to look after their children full time and that is a valid choice.

If you feel guilty or upset that you are not able to make that choice, that is on you and not me.

Not me or anyone I know, we all went back to our jobs/careers. Some of us went back pt and changed attitude to going above and beyond, others returned FT and continued to progress.

I'm gen X if that makes any difference?

I do find it hard. We are expected to bring in an equal wage and push for the senior positions and that is tough and I do miss out on time with my children as a result. Society expects us now to do both at high intensity and it’s exhausting.

Look at it this way - a woman who cuts back creates a vacancy for another woman/person to advance.

I’ve noticed this happen and I wish I’d done it, I’m the one who powered through back working after 5 weeks, burnt out many times built up massive resentment towards my DH as it just simply wasn’t an option for me as he was a low earner, I feel he had the easy life free ride and I’m the one that gave my whole being to the DS, home and work life.

Take me back 22 years and I’d change it all, they he’d have had no choice but to pull his socks up!

This is what you said

Maybe because they want to bring up their children? Not everyone wants to work while they have children at home.

That first sentence suggests you think that working parents are not bringing up their children. Maybe you didn’t mean that and it was clumsy phrasing or you’re backtracking now you’ve been called out? Either way, looking at that sentence objectively surely you can see why some of us have interpreted it as a judgemental comment.

I also find it frustrating that the first reaction of someone being challenged or to suggested they’re upset or regret their choices. So lazy.
It might surprise you but some people will challenge comments which come across as judgmental even if it doesn’t personally offend them.

Thats not true though, is it? I remember being out of the house from 7am and didnt get home until gine 6pm because of travel. How can a parent possible "be there" with those timings? My mother worked all through my childhood and I really missed her. I get that some people need to work, but putting stay at home mother down isnt the way to make anyone feel better. These are women with minds of their own, they know their finances and doing what works best for their own family.