AIBU to feel uneasy about mothers leaving successful careers?

[Toodledootwo]

All my friends are quitting their successful career jobs after having children. They all seem to be throwing their hands in the air saying what’s the point. Is there a revolt happening against women working? It seems we were encouraged to get to work and be independent….but when becoming a mother….still be that mother, still be that provider till burn out?

If you lack imagination and ambition for how society could be set up, then certainly. Personally I want nothing short of total revolution because the advanced capitalist system we inhabit is not working for anyone.

I never said the current set-up wasn’t constraining, simply that it could be better.

You can go back to a career in ten or twenty years. Kids are only little once and it's very fleeting. I see the Millennial Mum's around me desperate to get back to work as though it would make them a bad feminist not to keep their job, as though being a Mother has no worth. Yes it's good that women have more financial freedom now so they can escape abuse etc, but if you are with a normally decent man, the money should be shared during this time. If it isn't, then that's financial abuse.

It's unfortunate that some employers and industries are not tailored to part time work,

Would your friends not have preferred to go part time for a few years when kids are little?

I certainly preferred that and my old employer didn't allow it. I tried to find a role within the firm that would take me on part time and noone wanted a part time member of the team. Which was unfortunate especially as the firm made a lot of noise about supporting women.

The friend I referenced who left a million pound plus career in the city simply could not have said "I'll be in from 9 to 12."

That's not me lacking imagination; it's just saying what worked for you - and well done for finding what did - isn't necessarily the panacea for all, or even a model for a perfect society.

To me what works best is letting people be free to do what actually does work best for them. And I doubt it is the same for all. Lots of people find they can't do a thing part time. they are either all-consumed, or not.

I think when we have more fathers pushing for part-time work we'll find more role and industries can in fact accommodate part-time work.

100% agree

No you are the one missing the point both parents don’t have to be off at the same time. Getting time off to recover from pregnancy and birth is essential in my opinion but doesn't mean that in the long term men can’t be the one to take over the care of the child.
As regards courage I can say I’m “brave “ for getting into my car and going into the office to work but I doubt anyone would agree with me . I also don’t think it’s “brave “ to quit your job and stay at home. I do think in modern day for me I would not want to be in a vulnerable position and dependent on someone financially and I value career and my independence. Is that brave ? No it’s just a choice. That’s my opinion and I’m entitled to express it .

Not all careers allow you to return after 20 years and we shouldn’t be promoting this as fact.

It means you are trying to imply that Im bashing women who SAH through choice
Im not

Amen!!

If only mothers could opt out of caring for their children until they became "interesting" or "enjoyable"! Both my husband and I dropped down to four days a week after my maternity leave and did a day of childcare each, my husband didn't have any trouble bonding with our babies, or looking after them.

I wasn't.

I actually just quoted @WhyIsThereGlitterEverywhere and agreed.

Perhaps I should have looked further back to what she had appended it to. but I was simply looking to reinforce the desirability of choice without judgment.

It’s been mentioned already, but do people really think through the implications of women not working? Do we really want to go back to the days when all doctors, lawyers, politicians, judges, product designers, police officers etc. were men? How is it beneficial for society to have all decisions made by 50% of the population?

I tell my DSs that me and their dad work to provide for us but also to make the world go round. I work for an organisation that I believe contributes positively to society and I am senior enough to have control of my diary to take time when needed for daytime school events etc. Yes it is a juggle as we have no family help nearby but we’re a team and balance the need for flexibility between us.

Exactly, I can't think of a single job that you can't do part time where I work, and we're a real mix of roles. Funny how jobs can accommodate part time when even senior people are partially retiring.

The school wraparound care in our village school is very much sought after. Even the kids who have a parent at home want to attend. It’s great because the kids get to mix with children of all ages which really promotes that lovely village culture.

This is what I mean about the narrative, so many people push the idea that using childcare is an inferior choice to children being at home. I can tell you for a fact that a large proportion of kids in my village would disagree.
The quality of childcare is the key factor. My 12 year old still talks about the nursery he attended and requested to continue to attend after school care even when we didn’t need it anymore.

Good luck with that. Not one single mother I know has gone back to the career they had pre children after giving up work. They've mainly ended up in low paid part time jobs.

I’m not sure £1m+ paying city careers are part of the kind of societal structure that we should be aiming for, but even if we say for a moment that they are - all I am saying is that there SHOULD be a better way, not that there is.

Meanwhile you are simply saying that at the moment it is not possible. I agree, at the moment it is sadly not possible despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of working mothers want more flexible career choices and more part-time working.

We appear to be talking at cross-purposes. I’m putting forward a vision for a better society. I’m saying that I am lucky, and that more women should be able to have what I have, which is balance.

Can’t men talk about parenting dynamics of fathers?
Must women be obligated to spend a portion of their time discussing fathers in the workplace? I doubt they are doing it for women in return.

Actually I think this is one aspect of society where we do need to talk about the role of men and women in the workplace and as parents together.
The fact this conversation tends to revolve around women only, is why many women find themselves in the situation of trying to juggle both roles while men just focus on their careers.

I certainly curtailed my career to look after my children because i know the ballpark of what my contemporaries earn and i am just as capable. Post children, however, i reduced my hours and worked locally in the same type of role with minimum growth available and refused to travel so that i could always be around for the children, so taking and picking up from nursery/school with no other childcare. I still out earned the childrens father, who refused to ask for any accommodations to look after the children and years later we parted ways.
I believe since separation he has upped his game and now out earns me because he couldn't rely on my earnings anymore and i still do most of the caring for the children, but because i kept working (albeit not at my full capability) I dont have to worry about my pension or my home or even if i want to stay in the job i have currently.

Hopefully. Personally I am absolutely sick and tired of women telling other women that they have to work and showing off about how incredible it is that they’ve reached senior/exec level and that all women should be aspiring for that. I can’t stand this. Surely we’re at an age where people have freedom of choose rather than this sometimes bitchy race to the top. There are so many women like this in my industry and I couldn’t be more different to them and I think other women who have felt this pressure/ competition are starting to question whether it’s worth it. Who is winning anyway?

“To me what works best is letting people be free to do what actually does work best for them.

But they are not free, that is my whole point.

”And I doubt it is the same for all. Lots of people find they can't do a thing part time. they are either all-consumed, or not.”

If people are all consumed then what space is left for family life? Fair enough to be all consumed but I’m not sure how that would ever work with the raising of children, who generally require present parents (of both sexes).

If part-time flexible working with options to go part-time (for both sexes) doesn’t work for you as a progressive vision for motherhood then what exactly do you envisage? The current advanced capitalist system but with women capitulating to the demand that they sacrifice presence for their children for economic benefit? Outsourcing that labour to poorer women? We are already doing that so it sounds like you’re just in favour of the status quo?

I’m not sure that is “the narrative.” When I decided not to send my child to nursery once they’d just gone one all of my social circle acted like I was an overly emotional first time mum, stunting their social/emotional growth and independence because I couldn’t cope with my own feelings about separation.

Luckily my career was related to child development so I could just laugh it off and tell them they were wrong, but honestly the social pressure might have been too much for me if I’d have been less confident in my own knowledge. Perhaps it depends where you are. In my social circle, it is the norm to send children to childcare and people are starting to believe that it is necessary for children as young as one to be in some sort of “school.” It’s only going to get worse now that the funding starts from 9 months. It’s presented as a positive for their development, which it isn’t necessary at that age. Obviously it’s nuanced — a toddler is better off at a good nursery than neglected at home or living in poverty. But it’s not better than being home 1:1 with an engaged parent.

I agree with you that more flexibility is desirable, but I think one important thing we can change - ourselves and today - is to just stop with the judgment of other women's choices.

I

Indeed, women do not have to look after husband and children unless they choose to. We cannot however take away biology, if you want children you will have to be pregnant, give birth or have a section and recover from these. You will probably take maternity leave. The path you are on has veered away from that of your husband. You will have to appeal to your employer’s reasonableness if you want flexible working. Yes, there are cases where both parents will return to work full time and afford a nanny or both will cut to part time and truly share all childcare, housework and mental load of family admin but that is far from the norm.
The organisation Pregnant then Screwed exists for a reason, some employers are wonderful some aren’t. I do believe that we misled the current 30s and 40s year olds into thinking they could have everything.