AIBU to expect my sister to accept my fourth pregnancy when she is child free not by choice ?

[TheFunnyPoet]

My husband and I have been together for 11 years and married for 9. He is 49 and I’m 38.
He has two older children from his previous marriage, both of whom are still very much part of our household. They split their time between us and their mum, although realistically they’re here a lot. So although this will technically be my husband and my fourth child together, we already have a very full house. We’ve recently announced that we’re expecting our fourth baby together.

I’m obviously over the moon. This baby was planned, wanted and very much conceived because we both genuinely wanted another child. This is our last DH has since had a vasectomy.My sister, however, has taken the news really badly.She’s 44 and with a lovely partner who does have children. She was married for quite a long time to her ex, and apparently he had always told her that he “might” want children eventually. She waited because she loved him and trusted that he would change his mind.He never did.
They eventually separated and divorced and she’s now in the position of being childless when having children is something she desperately wants.

She has said to me that every single one of my pregnancies has felt like a punch in the stomach because I already have three children and am now having a fourth.
I completely understand that she’s hurting, and I have tried to be sensitive. I don't constantly talk about the pregnancy around her I’ve even avoided discussing names etc.
But she has now basically said that she feels I’m being incredibly insensitive by having another baby when I know how desperately she wants one.

This is where I’m struggling.I feel awful for her. I genuinely do. I can’t imagine wanting a child for years and not having one.
But at the same time, what exactly am I
supposed to do? My sister's situation isn't something I can fix. I can't give her my baby, and I don't think it's reasonable for me to not have my baby because she hasn't been able to have one.And, if I'm being completely honest, there is a part of me that feels angry because she chose to stay with a man for years who she knew was ambivalent about having children. She says he manipulated her and strung her along, whereas I think at some point she also had to make a choice about whether to stay.

I haven’t said that last part to her because I know it would be incredibly hurtful.
My husband thinks I’m being far too considerate already and says that while we should obviously be kind to her, our family planning is nobody else’s business.
My mum, however, has told me I need to “put myself in my sister’s shoes” and perhaps accept that she might not want much contact with me during the pregnancy or after the baby is born. I am fine with no contact my life shouldn’t stop for her to be happy.

I’m finding that difficult because we’ve always been very close, and I don't want my sister to resent my baby before he/she is even born.

I’m not asking whether I should have had the baby that ship has obviously sailed. I’m asking whether I’m being unreasonable in expecting my sister to accept that I’m allowed to be happy about my pregnancy despite knowing how painful it is for her.

Can you explain what you find nasty?

For those unable to conceive the pain is unbearable, yes you should celebrate your pregnancy, but having someone so close to you conceive is beyond distressing. Give her time and I hope you both find kindness and joy.

I agree, this wasn't great OP and I think there's probably more you're saying to her than you're letting on.

Being in pain does not justify the nastiness the sister is exhibiting. It’s not the op’s fault she hasn’t got a child.

I think sister or not, people are likely to judge a 4th kid (6th for the DH) with a man nearly 50 years old. If it was me I'd probably just roll my eyes and say "again?" you can't expect a parade every time by the 3rd or 4th one.

But she’s absolutely not unable to conceive. She’s never tried!

If she's 44, unless and until OP gives information to the contrary, we can't assume she's unable to conceive. People are fixating on the distinction because she's still of an age where having a child might be possible, and that actually matters a lot.

She is unable to conceive! Her age and life circumstances are such that she is facing the reality that she will never have children, despite the fact that she desperately wants them. Yes, there are different reasons why a person may end up at that place, but the outcome and the pain are just the same.

At 44 years old and with a partner that doesn't want children, do you really believe that having children is a realistic optiom?

You’re completely infantilising the sister. She’s made a series of poor choices which have led to her current situation and she’s now choosing to take her pain and regret out on OP and every woman she knows who’s made different choices and is pregnant or has children. She wasn’t even that old when they split up, she had time to meet someone who wanted kids or to use a donor. Shes’s not “socially inferior”, when did that become a thing for goodness sake? She’s not any kind of infertile. That’s so insensitive to women who actually are infertile. She picked a man who strung her along, she stayed with him too long, she’s didn’t try and have a baby after they split. She has no reason at all to be so nasty to OP or anyone else.

We’re going to go round in circles but there is no reason to claim she’s unable to conceive. You just don’t have any basis for saying that. 44 is getting on and I wouldn’t do it but if she’s fertile there is every reason to believe she could conceive if she tried to. She hasn’t tried. She is therefore not at all infertile.

That's not fair at all. People end up without children for a huge variety of reasons. They may have desperately wanted their life to work out differently; and yes, if they had made different choices, at different points in time, maybe it would have, but no one has a crystal ball. Regardless of the reasons - being childless and facing the possibility that you will never have children when you desperately want them is one of the most profoundly painful experiences a woman can have. Yes, it doesn't excuse being rude to other people, but if it were my sister going through
something so painful, I'd definitely cut her some slack. I'd allow her to express he honest feelings and not take them personally. and if she made the odd out of pocket remark (which she apologised for afterwards) I definitely wouldn't hold it against her.

I meant what I wrote, which is that we can't assume she is unable to do so. There's a lot of gaps being filled in here. And you're doing it again, as OP hasn't actually said the current partner doesn't want to.

There are multiple possibilities here. You presumably know that a woman doesn't require a partner in order to have a baby, so that means if current DP doesn't want one, Dsis could be making a choice about what she prioritises. She might not want to choose the possibility of a baby over a definite relationship. She could have objections to IVF. Or, as OP doesn't know if they have TTC, maybe they did and Dsis does now know she's unable to have a child. The whole point is that we don't know. The information given isn't sufficient to say she's unable to conceive, that's guesswork.

It's not impossible that she could still have a child in her circumstances at 44, but it is extremely unlikely. And that is the painful reality she is facing.

The mention of circumstances is important, because one of the realistic possibilities here is that your guess about DP not wanting more was right so she might need to leave her relationship in order to attempt it. That is, that it could still be her own choices that are the only thing preventing her from having a child, even now. This is why people talking about the fact that as a 44 year old she may still be able to have a child. None of us have enough information to quantify how likely it is, all we know is that it's one of a range of possibilities here. For all you know she's still fertile and this is solely about her repeating the same pattern with the new partner.

At 44 years old it's extremely rare to successfully conceive a first child. Even more so through IVF. Her chances are probably significantly less than very many women struggling with infertility.

The point is, you have no idea whether it's her choice not to attempt it or not. We have no information about funds for IVF, views on donor eggs, DPs wishes and how she'd balance them, any medical factors that make success more or less likely and OP has specified she doesn't know whether Dsis has previously TTC or not. You're making a lot of assumptions, at least one of which (DP having said he didn't want to) was incorrect. Other women struggling with infertility are irrelevant, especially as you don't even know Dsis to be infertile.

I think it’s awful how the OP’s sister is being blamed for her childlessness because she chose to stay in a relationship hoping he would be ready one day. It’s not considered acceptable on here on Mumsnet to blame women who’ve had children with useless men, or for having more children than they can cope with - the general view is that “it’s done now, what’s the point of blaming”.

No doubt some people on this thread would say I’m not actually childless not by choice because when I couldn’t conceive, I chose to stay with my husband rather than leave and try my luck with another man or sperm donor. After all if I’d really wanted a baby …….

The sister is simply being held to account for calling the OP greedy and insensitive for having another child while the sister refused to leave a man she was married to during her fertile years despite being counselled to do so by those who care for her. Were the sister not to have specifically treated the OP and her friends like they were having children to spite her, I'm sure the sister's responsibility for her own choices would continue to be tactfully swept under the carpet and politely ingnored. But the sister has said and done something that has crossed what sounds like a very generous threshold the OP had in place. So she is flouncing, and the OP has been upset and trying to stop that and preserve what the OP thought was a "close" relationship... but I suspect she will come to appreciate the liberation that some distance will bring. Perhaps they will both feel the benefits of it. Let's hope so.

“Swallow her pride”?!?!?
What pride? She’s in pain. She is standing on the sidelines watching you pop them
out like Queen Victoria while she knows that EVERYONE in your mutual circle of friends and family knows that she wants to be a mother too and she can’t even have one. There is zero pride in that. It’s painful, and possibly even slightly humiliating. Have a bit of empathy and lower your expectations of what she “should” be happy about when she’s clearly hurting.

@TunnocksOrDeath So the sister won't express her wrath at the older sister for having four children, nor to her friends for whom she posts saccharine messages of congratulations despite snarking about them behind their backs when they announce pregnancies or give birth, but the little sister OP should be so grateful for having a husband who wants to have children with her, indeed for her to "pop them out like Queen Victoria", that she should just suck up being told she's insensitive and greedy for having a child when she knows her sister is unhappy about not having children? That doesn't sound right.

the sister's responsibility for her own choices would continue to be tactfully swept under the carpet and politely ingnored

what??

It’s not right, but it’s kind. People in pain lash out. Most of us have said things while angry or hurt using language that we later regret. I think the OP, as the one who actually has what they both want, can afford to be the magnanimous one and cut her sister some slack for now then talk with her when it’s less raw, and let her get it all off her chest.

Being the designated punch bag for someone who vents all their discontent that they feel towards everyone else but only dare take out on you is not the sort of kindness we should be encouraging in women. Terrible advice.

I don't think that you are at all unreasonable to be happy to be having another baby. However I think it is a bit patronising to suggest that she should be pleased to have nieces and nephews instead.It is not a consolation for having no children of her own. Having a close relationship with nieces and nephews is a good thing per se, but I think things are still too raw for your sister right now. She made her choice and now regrets it and her bitterness is unfairly aimed at you. Give her time and space to work things out.