To leave early after my dad told off my son?

[Sparklesbigtoe]

Will try & keep this brief cos I didn’t get many replies on my longer one and I’d really like to know if I’m overreacting or not. 5 yo DS & I are staying with my dad for a few days. Yesterday while we’re eating dinner he raised his voice (not quite shouted) at him & told him he has no manners and he doesn’t want to eat dinner with him again and that he needs to go straight to bed. DS wouldn’t sit still, kept getting up and burping at the table. All bad behaviour I know and I was dealing with it but my dad butts in. He goes on at him so much DS starts crying. He then suggests I’m not bringing him up properly and not teaching him any manners, says DS is rude for ignoring him earlier that day when he asked him a question (I wasn’t there but he wouldn’t have ignored him, he may have not understood or frozen out of shyness, which happens sometimes). I took DS to bed and went to bed with him and haven’t seen my dad since. I feel extremely unwelcome here now and just want to go home. Problem is we’re in rural Wales and the only way we can leave is to have my dad drive us to the train station. We’re due to stay till Sunday. What would you do? If I end up staying, what do I say to him today? He’ll never apologise to me or ds or admit he was in the wrong.

I agree that you have nothing to apologise for and I'm surpised at all of the responses that suggest you should grovel and ask for forgiveness. Your son was right to apologise for burping at the table but your dad has seeminly decades of bad behaviour to apologise for as well. If he won't then you can take it as given that he is not sorry, does not think he's done wrong, and does not intend to reflect or change.

erm... where to start with this one!

A lot of these responses are ridiculous. He’s 5 years old and you were dealing with it. My 4 year old struggles at dinner time - won’t stay sitting down, doesn’t want to talk, doesn’t usually want to eat - he’s exhausted by 4pm. He can manage it at breakfast and at lunch time and in nursery but by dinner time it’s just way too much. We don’t usually go out for dinner for this reason but on the very odd occasion we do I wouldn’t allow anybody to have him in tears for something like this.

If talking to your Dad doesn’t work then get a taxi.

BA in Armchair Assessments from the University of Life?

Just a word of warning Op: lots of people think their abusive parents have changed, because they are no longer around the triggering behaviour of children. Once grandchildren come along it’s amazing how quickly they go straight back to being exactly who you remember them being.

Food should never be used as a reward or a punishment; that creates incredibly unhealthy habits with food that can last a lifetime.

Please do not remove food from your son for bad behaviour; it is not a logical or natural consequence.

I'm in my sixties and still almost painfully shy. Most people don't realise because I have perfected the art of 'fake it 'til you make it but inside it's a constant struggle. The absolute bliss of a day when I don't have to talk to anyone but DH and adult DC is indescribable.

That being said, it is rude for your DC not to respond when spoken to. If he is too shy to should be teaching him to make eye contact, smile and nod or wave.

@Sparklesbigtoe , you don't have to visit your father. It sounds really difficult. Can you get a bus, taxi or train home? I would be tempted to put it on a credit card, given the situation.

I would be tempted to point out that DS's behaviour can be explained in large part by being 5 years old, your father does not have such an excuse for his behaviour.

He cares so much about manners but does not lead by example. Raising your voice at the dinner table, reducing a child to tears, making guests feel unwelcome in your home, historically refusing to apologise for wrong doing etc.

He cares about people’s manners towards him, yet his own leave a lot to be desired.

Sorry, but clearly your dad felt that you were not responding and stepped in because your DS’s behaviours was negatively impacting everyone else. You’re at fault here.

Even when my DD was a little over 2, I picked her up in a restaurant and took her outside because she was having a tantrum. She was not allowed back until she had calmed down. I would remove my DC from a family meal or social gathering every time if there was misbehaviour - and yes, jumping up and down/burping would have seen immediate removal and threat of early bed (alone) and no supper. A threat that I was prepared to follow through on and my kids would know that because I always follow through. Learned the hard way to have a set of preplanned consequences [yes, punishments] because occasionally ended up cutting my own nose off to spite my face by lashing out.

You affirmed his appalling behaviour by taking him to bed and remaining with him - that boy now has no idea which way is up and he certainly doesn’t understand that his behaviour was appalling because you’ve given him a cuddle and confirmed that granddad was wrong. You are the problem here.

As others have said, to your ds ' we're staying with grandad until Sunday, thank you for listening to mummy and sitting nicely at the table' set him up to succeed. If he then repeats the poor behaviour, remove him straight away so your dad doesn't need to intervene, feel wound up etc, it needn't become the elephant in the room. Don't give ds hundred million chances, particularly in an older person's home, say it, mean it, own it if you can.
You are already aware where his behaviour slipped yesterday and you know your dad won't bend, say sorry etc so don't look for it. Get yourself outside in the beauty of Wales, play, laugh, and lower your own feelings. Your dad won't change, you're not going to magically make a shy 5yr old not shy etc, but you can find a way to rub along for another 48 hours without looking for a solution, because there isn't one!

Im saying nothing about his wider behaviour but raising your voice to admonish a child who's not listening to being asked nicely and said child then crying is pretty normal and neither have anything to do eith bad manners. Likewise wanting your guests to feel comfortable in your home doesnt involve putting up with poor behavoour from a young child.

It’s interesting that you are triggered by my observations, perhaps some introspection is required?

No, I'm laughing at you.

Oh OP.
A few burps and some restlessness from a 5 year old.
Whilst maybe not ideal, I don't belive is the horror others are making it out to be.

Sounds like you were trying to avoid a confrontation with your dad escalating.

Try and have a quick chat with him today to clear the air.
'Dad I know you mean well, and DS' table behaviour could be better, but please leave it to me. I know we are in your house, but please don't speak to him like that again.'

If it doesn't go well, explain calmly that you don't think staying till Sunday is a great idea as it seems stressful for all of you.

Triggered, as I said above 👍🏻

Firstly, OP, ignore all the yummy mummies on here who claim to have perfect, insta-ready kids who never get shy and can hold a conversation with Einstein at the age of 3. They might think they’re perfect but really they have a terrible fucking attitude. Some people just like to have someone to talk down to.

Your father sounds like a bully. He clearly didn’t learn anything much from being a parent. You don’t have to see him. He makes you feel bad about yourself, probably always has done. Don’t let him do that your little boy.

Can you change your tickets home and get a taxi to the station? If at all possible, go home and enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Going forward, have as little to do either your dad as possible.

Your child sounds rude and it sounds like your parenting style is going to cause you many problems in the years to come…

I'm very surprised that you are/were happy for your abusive dad to have a relationship with your son after he was abusive to you when you were a child. He obviously has no patience and possibly enjoys exploiting the power imbalance between him and his children and grandchildren.

He seems to have the old fashioned mind-set that children should be seen and not heard. Fortunately for your son, although you couldn't escape your father's abuse when you were a child, your son doesn't need to have a relationship with him.

Can you not get a taxi to the station?

Well the Mother should parent her child then. The child's behaviour was disgraceful.
Are you a lazy parent like that, do you allow disgusting behaviour.

OP, i think both you and your child sound very hard work. You are a parent so bloody well parent.

DS wouldn’t sit still, kept getting up and burping at the table

I don’t believe that someone who calls this out is a bully.

By a grandparents who abused his own daughter when she was a child?

People of your dad’s generation like me, wouldn’t dream of asking advice from some random person in the pub or at the bus stop and asking folk on social media like Mumsnet is no different, except you’re more likely to encounter self important fake experts and nasty trolls on here than you would down the pub!

You don’t need anyone’s permission to decide how to live your life. If you want to go home, just do it.

Come off SM and focus on building your own self esteem and confidence in making your own decisions.

Are you annoyed that your dad has told him that his bad behaviour is bad, or are you embarrassed that your child was behaving badly and someone else has picked up on it, or do you not want your child told off by others? I don’t really know what you’re upset about. People are going to comment on poor behaviour, so keep working on poor behaviour. Crying isn’t traumatising to a child, and he needs to get used to people telling him that poor behaviour isn’t acceptable as he’ll be told it at school.