To leave early after my dad told off my son?

[Sparklesbigtoe]

Will try & keep this brief cos I didn’t get many replies on my longer one and I’d really like to know if I’m overreacting or not. 5 yo DS & I are staying with my dad for a few days. Yesterday while we’re eating dinner he raised his voice (not quite shouted) at him & told him he has no manners and he doesn’t want to eat dinner with him again and that he needs to go straight to bed. DS wouldn’t sit still, kept getting up and burping at the table. All bad behaviour I know and I was dealing with it but my dad butts in. He goes on at him so much DS starts crying. He then suggests I’m not bringing him up properly and not teaching him any manners, says DS is rude for ignoring him earlier that day when he asked him a question (I wasn’t there but he wouldn’t have ignored him, he may have not understood or frozen out of shyness, which happens sometimes). I took DS to bed and went to bed with him and haven’t seen my dad since. I feel extremely unwelcome here now and just want to go home. Problem is we’re in rural Wales and the only way we can leave is to have my dad drive us to the train station. We’re due to stay till Sunday. What would you do? If I end up staying, what do I say to him today? He’ll never apologise to me or ds or admit he was in the wrong.

I wouldn't mind my dad telling him off but telling you off is not on. Even if he disagrees with your parenting, there are kinder and more helpful ways of putting that across. And if you think your kids are shit parents, look at yourself. Who did they learn their parenting skills from?

What you could do to keep the peace is to ask your Dad's advice on how to stop the bad behaviour of your son.....even if you dont want to hear it. Admit you may not be succeeding as well as you could.

Honestly? Unless there’s a background he’s his grandfather and can tell him off if he’s misbehaving in his home. Maybe he will behave better at dinner tomorrow for it.

My four year old nephew has been told off a few times by me. Sometimes they need to be told they’re not acting right.

Your father's opinion is of course important to you, but it doesn't make him right. Parenthood is hard, some days you're winning and others, not so much. Chalk this up to experience.

Yeah I guess for me, I don't like when others parent my children but then they don't have to as I would do it myself.

If my kids were with my siblings or parents and they did something like this I would expect my family to intervene (if I wasn't there) and parent them on my behalf.

At 5 years old, your son have the ability to engage in having a regular conversation. Asking a kid about school isn't boring or unusual. He should be polite enough to even just say 'fine thank you'.

From all of this it suggest a bit of permissive parenting which is clashing with your father who is witnessing repeated poor behaviour and stepping in to parent because what you are doing doesn't work.

I would also say at five, having the 'okay kids time for best manners as we are a guest in someones home' is acceptable and reasonable.

Getting up from the table and burping repeatedly is rude. A five year old knows this so I would suggest it was attention seeking.

We don't know the whole story but there was nothing 'abusive' about what your father said or did here.

I don't think the OP said he abused her (which would imply sexual or violent abuse). She said he was controlling, but she also goes on to say that he has always been there for her and physically looked after her. She says he has many good points. It sounds to me as if he displays a lot of the characteristics of actually being human.

My nephew never wanted to eat anything except of biscuits, crisps and chocolate. He is now 10 and nothing has changed. He just doesn't come to the table or leaves the table saying he is not hungry only to take the biscuit from the cupboard 5 minutes later. He only lives on such supermarket snacks. Mom doesn't seem to care and generally gave up parenting him because he is tough to parent in general (think he just walks around and finds a victim to lash out at all the time, beats up other kids, talks back rudely to everyone etc.). His dad is trying to put some boundaries in place but he is overruled by soft mum, so he backs down to avoid a fight and goes to have a drink instead. We are now on holidays near them and I had to throw the nephew out last time because he started beating up my son.

It’s an overreaction, sorry OP.

I think as single parents we tend to go overboard protecting our children from what would have been a mundane, relatively common telling off by a grandparent. A 5 year old should know by then how to eat properly at the table and (personally) I find your expectations about your father drawing with him etc a bit unrealistic.

Depending on the age difference a lot of grandparents won’t really have the same way of engaging with children that you do, doesn’t mean they care or love them any less. Asking how’s school is perfectly normal, not boring.

I can see why you want to leave, but I’d probably try to calm down and power through. Your kid will hardly be traumatised from this.

Good Morning OP, given the backstory & dynamics you have hinted at here, your (now adult) self may need to calmly pack your things, order a taxi/?uber (yes I am sure that would be a huge expense but it is the independent way to do things) and leave early.

Your DF has hugely overstepped your boundaries - you were dealing with your DS behaviour - and has insulted you to boot.

You do NOT have to see your DF as the 'only way to the train station' (this is never the case).

You may feel a liberation as you finally stand up for yourself, step into a new dynamic, draw a boundary in how (adult & mother you) will allow your DF to treat you.

AND most importantly, model and teach your son that he can do that too. And stand up for him being bullied (by a person who bullied you too) when he is too little to do so himself.

I'd tell my son he needs to sort out his table manners. I'd then apologize to Dad, but also state that you have spoken to your son and it won't happen again. That you don't appreciate shouting and don't parent that way. And could they both please apologize to each other? That you don't want to fall out over it so let's just forget it after the apology.

If he's unwilling to then I'd ask for a lift to the station as we don't want to stay if it's going to be so upsetting for him.

Ugh.

I’m so sorry that you got such spiteful responses on here. Once again MN goes for the jugular.
You’re doing a good job. You were dealing with it. And your Dad is and was a bully. The fact that you’re scared of him shows that. Now your son will be scared of him too. See how it goes. You’re allowed to leave whenever you like.

I don’t think threats of taking away pudding and no film are very effective in this sort of situation. The burping and the other issues were for attention. The way to deal with them is to tell the child to stop, then if they continue remove them from the room and say they can come back to the table when they are ready to behave. A punishment for a five year old needs to happen there and then.

Shouting at and intimidating a grandchild is abusive. Speaking to them kindly and firmly is acceptable. You are wrong.
what is a five year old supposed to say to a question like ‘how’s school?’

@Sparklesbigtoe your dad sounds very like mine and we had similar issues with how he related to our DS when little. My mum once came and asked us during one holiday to cancel the next visit due to our son's behaviour which was extremely hurtful. She did at least say it was because they wouldn't cope but we used to get lots of criticism of our son's fairly normal 'naughty' behaviour, which like you, we did respond to with appropriate boundaries. There was a lot of 'Why don't you...' and implied criticism of us. I'm sorry your dad was so openly horrible to you - that must be very hard. It did get easier once our son was older and my dad did engage with him once he was past the playing on the floor stage. They used to do stuff together in my dad's workshop etc which was really nice to observe. I'm sending you a big hug as it is hard phase to go through but hang on in there. If you have the opportunity you might find it helpful to have some therapy so that you can stop being scared of your dad and have a more adult to adult relationship. It was hard to challenge my dad but I got better at it.

You should reflect on whether you are properly training your son or making excuses for him.

In any case, no human being should be brought up believing no one is allowed to criticise them but their mum.

My thoughts exactly! You sound like a good and loving mum, OP 💐

You should read your nephew the story of the Bristol teenager who went permanently blind due to his restrictive diet

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-49551337

This. Your father’s behaviour hurt you as a child, it’s still hurting you, and now it’s hurting your son as well.

I understand that things aren’t black and white, but being an apparently decent human being some of the time doesn’t make it ok for someone to be emotionally abusive at other times.

Your father is the one who needs to be given some boundaries and consequences. If he can’t be a loving parent and grandparent, he doesn't get your company for extended visits.

I realise that may be very hard if you’re isolated and lacking in other support generally, but this really isn’t healthy for you or for your DS. Yes you’re entitled to leave.

Or if you think you can manage it, you could try saying to your father that if he continues to speak to you and your son that way, you’ll be leaving early. If you think he’d take the slightest bit of notice of you. But you really have to mean it if you say it.

Shocked at the poll results on this thread, I thought there was more understanding of emotional abuse on MN. But then, this is AIBU. You’d probably get better support if you posted about your relationship with your dad on the Relationships board, OP.

Whether his manners could have been better doesn’t change the fact your dad sounds like a very unpleasant man.

We have a controlling domineering family member. We meet irregularly and always on neutral territory so it is easy to leave.

This - or they come to us on my ground and I have another adult backing me.

I think whole trip was bad idea. It does sound like DS was being naughty but that you dealt with it only for him to pour petrol on the situation.

If you leave does it blow everything up into a bigger deal - can you leave before Sunday. If you have to stay be busy be out be away from your Dad as much as possible ,maybe tiring DS out may improve behavior a bit and run interference be glued to DS side and step in and leave rooms or house if needed.

Yeah take your son home and don't go back. 💯
Why put yourselves through thsi

If my parent was abusive to me as a child, I wouldn't be going out of my way to bring my child around them.

It's obviously tough for you, and you say the bad behaviour round the dinner table was unusual for your son, so maybe he was feeling uncomfortable? My parents are 'strict', and my son is ND so has always struggled to sit still - I do understand it's not always that easy to deal.

In my situation, at that age I spoke to my parents about how he sometimes struggled, and also spoke to my son about sitting nicely while we ate. He was allowed to leave the table once he'd finished eating, and me and my parents would carry on chatting - it was a good compromise, I think. He also understood that he needed to behave a certain way during meals there.

Can you afford to get a taxi or uber to the train station? I would do that.

YANBU. DS behaviour was out of character and you were dealing with it. He's only five. Your dad overreacted.