To leave early after my dad told off my son?

[Sparklesbigtoe]

Will try & keep this brief cos I didn’t get many replies on my longer one and I’d really like to know if I’m overreacting or not. 5 yo DS & I are staying with my dad for a few days. Yesterday while we’re eating dinner he raised his voice (not quite shouted) at him & told him he has no manners and he doesn’t want to eat dinner with him again and that he needs to go straight to bed. DS wouldn’t sit still, kept getting up and burping at the table. All bad behaviour I know and I was dealing with it but my dad butts in. He goes on at him so much DS starts crying. He then suggests I’m not bringing him up properly and not teaching him any manners, says DS is rude for ignoring him earlier that day when he asked him a question (I wasn’t there but he wouldn’t have ignored him, he may have not understood or frozen out of shyness, which happens sometimes). I took DS to bed and went to bed with him and haven’t seen my dad since. I feel extremely unwelcome here now and just want to go home. Problem is we’re in rural Wales and the only way we can leave is to have my dad drive us to the train station. We’re due to stay till Sunday. What would you do? If I end up staying, what do I say to him today? He’ll never apologise to me or ds or admit he was in the wrong.

It's not your dad's place to discipline your child, or (outside school) anyones place imo. I've had this happen when our children were younger and maybe playing up a bit. It really annoyed me and I said so at the time and told whoever to butt out.

If your dad thinks you're not raising your child he should bring it up privately and respectfully with you not in front of your son.

I’m sending you a massive hug OP cos I know there is a huge backstory that be causing a whole heap of emotions.

I have similar and it is really shit to feel judged by your own dad (especially in my case where his very seldom parenting left a lot to be desired!)

Op I really relate and want to give you a hug xx

Burping at the table is absolutely disgusting. That behaviour on its own shouldn't be tolerated. Nor should getting up and down at the table. How does he behave at home?

OP there are so many posts on here from idiots who don’t understand the relationship dynamics between yourself and your Dad.
I get it, and I too used to take myself away to hide rather than face up to my narcissistic mother.
You can’t fix him - your Dad is the way he is. It’s how you react to him that matters to keep yourself and your son safe.
You need MASSIVE boundaries and if you are not yet at a stage in your healing where you can communicate those to him (no judgement there - it took me until mid-40s to be able to do this) then it absolutely is safest to remove yourself and your son.
Ignore the posters with the perfect children (who are probably controlling narcissists themselves) telling you how awful your son is. It sounds like pretty standard 5-year old behaviour to me.

All of Spiked is out in full force today, jfc.

Look, I've got one very chill, sensible, primary age kid (and I know he must be well behaved because people comment on it a lot and he's the sort of kid who unloads the dishwasher without being asked and sat quietly through an RSPB talk about climate change aged 7 and always says please and thank you and all that!) and even he had to be told to come back to the table sometimes at five. Because it's five. He wouldn't have done the burping but he definitely has several friends who would have at that age, and all his friends are really nice gentle kids too.

Hi OP. I would leave. My grandfather was like this to my little brothers and I always thought my parents should have stood up for them. Reading this has brought it all back. I feel for you. However lots of people have mentioned booking a taxi and you have ignored that - is it definitely impossible? I get the feeling it's having to ask your dad for a lift that is stressing you out most of all.

@Sparklesbigtoe I’m so sorry you’ve had such critical replies here. It’s shocking and saddening to think to many people think it’s ok to shout at a child until they cry.
Do people honestly think it helps a person learn to be shouted at and made to cry? In that case what works for a child would obviously be ok for an adult. So these people need to tell their managers/bosses that verbal aggression towards them is ok and their preferred way of learning in the workplace. It’s only right to live by your beliefs.
@Sparklesbigtoe it sound like you are a lovely mum, and trying to meet your son’s needs. One of those needs is showing him his mum protects him and comforts him after aggressive behaviour towards him.
Don’t doubt yourself … and see if there’s a local taxi firm who could pick you up

My daughter aged about 7 came home and broke down in what someone might describe as “floods of tears” because her teacher shouted at her. She’s in 6th year now and it’s pretty much the only time she has ever been in trouble for anything at school. It’s not like she wasn’t ever told off at home, and I had absolutely no angst about her teacher. Some kids just can’t deal with other adults shouting at them.

This. I dread to think the parenting techniques used to get these children to be so compliant. Or else they just have perfect 5 year olds of course.

OP I think you should cut your trip short and reduce contact. Parent your child how you see fit. You are already doing a much better job than your dad.

She has already said it’s out of character.

People are saying that you shouldn't have gone to visit because you said that your father is ' Controlling and emotionally abusive '. It will be a shock for a 5 year old to be pulled up in this way, I am not really a stickler for strict table manners, but continually burping at the table is very bad manners, unless your son has a medical problem. 5 year olds do sometimes have odd ways of getting reactions from adults they want to engage with ie the continual burping may have been his way getting his Grandfather's attention if previous attempts have failed, but the attention he actually got was very negative and 'old fashioned'.Some people just aren't good at engaging with young children. My own Dad wasn't. Asking about school was your Dad's attempt at engaging, I wouldn't call that an 'abstract' question, however getting information about school from a child is usually like getting blood from a stone! I would be inclined to stick this visit out as it's only a few more days. If your Dad had shouted at or even hit your son, then end of relationship obviously. It will be interesting to see how your son behaves next meal time. When you get home maybe you should have a good think about your relationship with your Dad , past , present and future, you may decide to go LC . You could write to him to express how hurtful and damaging his parenting of you was, and that you are on a hair trigger when you think he is behaving that way to your son. You say he has mellowed and certainly my Dad showed his love in more practical ways. My own child had a very similar relationship with my Dad, that is he made no allowances for their age. Ironically in his later years they became very close, and he came to appreciate his grandchild and came as near as he ever did to acknowledging that he hadn't been the most doting of Grandfather's, but he was never anything other genuinely himself. So maybe what is needed is time and perspective for the relationship to develop. I was a single parent in the 90s and will never forget the shame and stigma visited on single parents by the Tories at that time, we were public enemy number one, so I get that you feel vulnerable and defensive especially when your own father is critical.

Ignore the posters with the perfect children (who are probably controlling narcissists themselves) telling you how awful your son is. It sounds like pretty standard 5-year old behaviour to me.
Here is everything that is wrong with MN.
Ignore athe majority of advice because everyone who disagrees with you is "narcissist ".
Why is it necessary to throw around psycobabble to try and increase your credibility.
Everyone has different life experiences and that is why tgey may give conflicting advice, but in the end the OP will make a considered decision.
no need to race to the bottom with kichen psychology.

Op the bit I am confused about is the fact that you said ‘he kept getting up from the table & burping,’ & you were still only giving him a warning about if he did it again. Had you not said something after all the previous times he had got up /burped. I’m not surprised your dad had had enough as from what you’ve told us, no actual parenting had actually happened.

You clearly weren’t addressing it effectively - he doesn’t need dessert removed, he needs to be told clearly and firmly to stop pissing about. You say he was about to behave nicely but you don’t know that. It really doesn’t hurt children to be told to pack it in, and it’s ok if they’re tearful after being told off.

I understand you feel your dad was emotionally abusive to you, in which case I wouldn’t put myself in the position of staying with him. It does sound like a whole production for something that was a telling off.

Your son should also know that he needs to respond when someone speaks to them. He might not have an answer to their question but acknowledge that they’ve been spoken too. How’s school isn’t that abstract a question.

I am a single parent too, as difficult as it is, I think you are letting the team down BIG TIME.

I doubt very much your child was frozen with fear earlier when your dad talked to him if he was still behaving like a little shit at the table in front of him. Good on your dad to pull both of you on your behaviour and lack of parenting, hopefully this is a wake up call for both of you that leads to better outcomes in the future.

I won’t post my credentials but let’s just say I know what I’m talking about.
Lack of empathy is a huge indicator of narcissism and anyone who read the description of the OP’s son’s behaviour and decided to tell her that it was disgusting, in light of everything else she shared in that post, tells me a lot about the person reading it.

I think you should go - tell him that you're bringing your son home early as a punishment for his behaviour, a white lie that your father can't argue with, as it sounds as if you don't want to tell him how upset you are.

You do need to think about ways to manage your sons behaviour though - the approach you've been taking to date doesn't seem to be working.k

That is the normal and right approach. I have two mother in a laws and my own mum - they all leave me and my husband to it

@Sparklesbigtoe I think this is excellent advice.

Talk to your father calmly now it's the next day. Say that while you appreciate your son was behaving badly at the table and you understand why he felt the need to intervene, the end result was actually worse than before. What your son responds to and what your dad defaults to aren't a good fit

You and he need to find a better way of being.

So, with 5 year old, "We're having a reset. Fresh start. Everyone is going to do their b st today and have a fun day."

To your dad, "Show me some faith. I know you love us and it would help me if you had confidence that I will get it right in my own time. Shouting about where I've gone wrong makes me feel anxious and pull away."

Thank you. That’s helpful :) I’m thinking I’ll just stay cos the alternative is more awkward! I’ll have to bring it up with him cos they’ll just be a giant elephant in the room otherwise and he will pretend nothing’s happened. I don’t want to say sorry though cos DS already said sorry last night and my dad sees the word sorry as a massive weakness and will never say it himself. I always found myself apologising for things that weren’t my fault just to appease him in the past and I don’t want to do it anymore. In general DS is very attached to me and he’s shy. He has a habit of not saying good morning or hello back to people if they say it to him. I’ve been trying really hard to get him to do this for a year but he really struggles with it. My dad gets annoyed cos he sees it as rude, which obviously it does come across as, but he’s still very little and just freezes out of shyness sometimes

Have you seen him at all today? If you’re worried that asking him to take you to the station would be more awkward, why don’t you go downstairs and get an idea of what the vibe is like today? If he’s pleasant maybe just stick it out until Sunday and don’t plan an overnight visit again. If he’s arsey then it’s easier to just ask to leave isn’t it? X

You're dad sounds like an awful man. Sorry you've had to deal with him and the MN vipers who love to kick anyone who is down. My first 2 children were a breeze to parent, they quickly learned what was expected of them. My 3rd not so much. People need to realise that it's not as simple as consistent boundaries and consequences for some children and your child was in an unfamiliar and probably scary environment.
I hope the next couple of days go okay OP. I'd suggest you don't go back there again. No need to tell your dad that until you're back home and have some distance from him. Don't let him emotionally abuse your son like he has you.

How lucky you are to have such a dad, who cares about manners. It is much better manners are taught in the family. Otherwise life itself will teach your son table manners and it is a totally different story. We have almost nothing left in this country, no industry, no culture, no faith, we only have manners left. This is literally the only distinguishing feature, left of Britishness - I am reminded of it every time I go to France, Italy or Germany, where I am horrified at their so-called 'manners'. Be thankful you have a dad who cares.

If your dad has a history of being controlling and abusive towards you, you are unreasonable to be taking your son to stay with him in the first place.

You are being totally unreasonable about basing your decision to stay on your father telling your son off for behaving so poorly at the table and for not listening to his mother.