To leave early after my dad told off my son?

[Sparklesbigtoe]

Will try & keep this brief cos I didn’t get many replies on my longer one and I’d really like to know if I’m overreacting or not. 5 yo DS & I are staying with my dad for a few days. Yesterday while we’re eating dinner he raised his voice (not quite shouted) at him & told him he has no manners and he doesn’t want to eat dinner with him again and that he needs to go straight to bed. DS wouldn’t sit still, kept getting up and burping at the table. All bad behaviour I know and I was dealing with it but my dad butts in. He goes on at him so much DS starts crying. He then suggests I’m not bringing him up properly and not teaching him any manners, says DS is rude for ignoring him earlier that day when he asked him a question (I wasn’t there but he wouldn’t have ignored him, he may have not understood or frozen out of shyness, which happens sometimes). I took DS to bed and went to bed with him and haven’t seen my dad since. I feel extremely unwelcome here now and just want to go home. Problem is we’re in rural Wales and the only way we can leave is to have my dad drive us to the train station. We’re due to stay till Sunday. What would you do? If I end up staying, what do I say to him today? He’ll never apologise to me or ds or admit he was in the wrong.

In the majority it is in good faith

You keep telling yourself that. All I see is a nasty pile on towards a 5 year old child.

Tells me the dad is the one in the right here. Op has made all sorts of excuses

I am going against the flow. I am a grandparent and if my grandchildren are there with their parents it is up to the parents to tell them off. Having said that, I am exasperated at children who get up and down from the table the whole time.

Op - you seem to be making excuses for your son's behavior. He sounds like he needs disipline.

I was just about to ask how your Dad treated you as a 5-year old and then saw your first update.
Your Dad is controlling and doesn’t sound very understanding or empathetic to your situation. I remember how they can be at that age and as much as mine were no trouble, it really was a big ask to expect them to still perfectly still and not fiddle with everything.
Your son is at an age where he finds burping hilarious and your Dad really shouldn’t be judging him so harshly.
You sound lovely and you need to get a taxi to come and collect you both asap and get your lovely son safely home with you where he isn’t constantly being judged and criticised for acting his age.

So your son is so shy that he freezes when he’s asked a question, this behaviour is ‘out of character’ as he’s usually well behaved , and yet he does something as bold and naughty as repeatedly burping after being warned? Does not sound like a shy and well behaved kid.
some kids today are just so badly behaved and it’s because no one else is allowed to step in even though it affects them. Op burping at the table is disgusting, and it affects other people at the table. So I do think other people can say something if they want.

Your child should have behaved properly, your dad shouldn't have got worked up. You are stuck in the middle. Talk to your dad, as others have said apologise but be clear about how you felt about what he said. Then move on.

What the hell am I reading here? I like good table manners as much as the next person but this is pretty average behaviour for a 5 year old and your dad was being unreasonable.

I really feel for you, and had a similar relationship with my parents. We rarely saw my grandfather on my dad's side (never saw my other grandfather), and one day when I was 13 I saw him grab my mum's friend's five year old by the back of his collar and drag the boy over to him because the child had ignored him. In that moment I realised if I had children I couldn't leave them with my dad because he was similar.

Later my mum was trying to get my 3 year old niece out of the car. My niece was mucking about and refusing and my mum said get out or I'll smack you. And I realised I couldn't leave kids with my mum either. I didn't have children because of this, so I really understand that what you are watching is a repeat of the dynamic that dominated your childhood. It's being played out again on your son, who you want to protect, so you are doubly hurt - by being told your parenting is not good and by your son being exposed to this verbal abuse.

In your shoes I would certainly get a taxi and leave. It is not unreasonable at all. I would then inform my father that if he wanted to see me and my child again, he would have to stop being abusive. At this point he might become abusive to you and your response is, "this is exactly why I won't see you. Until you behave properly, that's it". If there are consequences for children who misbehave then there are consequences for parents too.

I am so sorry that he did that to your son and to you. Leave as quickly as you can. Even if you pack your bags and tell your dad to take you both to the station.

What type of burping - mouth wide open forcing it out acting like a total pig or, a small accidental burp?

If it was the former, we'll done Grandad and you need to start parenting.

So your child is 5 and hasn’t yet learnt basic manners and your method of teaching is therefore not working - you clearly were NOT dealing with it

you may not like your dads way but he must be pretty fed up

and now rather than talk it over you are sulking like a small child ?

Asking for a lift to the station and leaving is a continuation of what happened last night by removing yourself from the room and not addressing the situation with your dad.

If you want to mend the relationship between you and between him and your son then having a conversation and understanding what pushed him to behave as he did, what boundaries you both need would be the more adult thing.

However that's hard given you are all likely upset about the situation and you already have a fragile relationship and have said his patterns of behaviour suggest he won't be able to have a discussion about it.

You understand why he was upset and that he initially stepped in out of frustration. You understand that he didn't parent you in the same way that you are parenting your son. No-one dealt with the situation well last night.

I think at the least you should try to have a conversation with him "Morning Dad, things went very badly at dinner. I'm sorry everyone got so upset. DS didn't intentionally ignore you and he understands that his behaviour at dinner wasn't acceptable. I do my best to parent him and I won't always get it right or do it the way you think I should. You said some very upsetting things to me last night. DS and I would like to stay until Sunday as we'd planned and spend the next few days with you. Is that what you want as well or would you prefer us to leave today?"

If you were dealing with the behaviour and it had already been rectified there was no need for your Dad to have his rant.
Im guessing you were scared of him growing up and that’s why this has caused such a reaction from you.
I wouldn’t leave early unless you can get a taxi to take you to the station, hopefully today will be better.
If my sons were behaving like that at the table you can bet their Grandparents on both sides would have something to say about it, they’d let me deal with it but would definitely back me up as they would be horrified…
My Mum/Dad will pull my children up on behaviour and manners if they think they are doing something they shouldn’t, thankfully it’s not too often but one is abit of a stroppy teenager with an attitude, they’d let pick him up on his tone, eye rolling and general slothing about, things that I generally let go because otherwise I’d be nagging him all the time.
Most grown ups will remind children of manners etc who they are related to, the ‘how’s school question?’ Is fairly standard as an opening question, I think it’s probably best this is the last visit for a little while

I think the history with your dad is very relevant, and would be interested to read the longer thread you said nobody responded to.

Everyone is piling on, ignoring you saying you had told him there would be consequences, allowed him to calm down and were about to try again.

I’m not very “gentle parent”, and have clear expectations of my children (I am quite strict, honestly) but they are only children and especially at 5 they can surprise you
with unexpected behaviours (more so in places they’re not familiar with), and you can find yourself facing a parenting problem you’ve never had to deal with before.

Your dad sounds very impatient considering and went way over the top giving his opinion of your parenting. I’m sure the people defending him wouldn’t appreciate it if it was directed at them!

Yep. Mumsnet. Where everyone’s child sits perfectly at the table and only gets up when given permission etc. oppressive.

Drip feed much but OP if this is triggering for you because of an abusive childhood then honestly you shouldn’t be there for an extended stay, and you definitely shouldn’t be there with your DS. If you have wifi to post on here then you can find and call a taxi. Leave today. The responses you’ve had, mine included, are assuming a normal family dynamic. Your son was behaving awfully. He wasn’t listening to you. And under those circumstances it would usually be quite normal for a GP to back you up and tell him off, especially when this is in their house round their dining table, and normally the support would be appreciated and not result in you both hiding out in your rooms and triggering childhood trauma. If you’d put that in the OP you would have received very different responses.

These replies are mental. Your dad sounds very old-fashioned and authoritarian. Most 5 year olds don’t have perfect table manners.

My children also freeze when my mum speaks to them because they’re scared of her – she’s very temperamental. And she responds like your dad – with more anger towards them. It’s not ok!

Call a taxi and leave.

Parenting has changed considerably since your dad's day; you were dealing with your dc in a perfectly acceptable way ie. consequences for bad behaviour etc. but, it is a very frustrating parenting technique if your not used to it.
He didn't shout, was just very cross and rightly so. Try to cut him some slack, but do address the earlier incident of dc freezing when approached by dgf. Dc will certainly think twice before joke burping at the dinner table again. Once dc realises dgf takes no nonsense, his behaviour and likewise your visits will improve.

Was your father "really" emotionally abusive or was he just an old school father who believed in discipline.
Your second posting is piling on a bit more information but are you digging for it.
Many of us older people grew up with a different kind of discipline, and perhaps that's why we react badly to the extreme of gentle patenting (which I am NOT accusing you of)
But I'm team dad here.

You don't state if there is a father figure at home. If not, and I'm presuming here obviously, then I would be so thankful for a male role model, even if he is a bit stern.

Please don't fall out with your dad over this. He will be gone one day and you will miss him. Please don't try and look back to what might have been stern upbringing in your eyes and call it emotional abuse unless you can search your heart and really admit that it was.
Please treasure your parents. Talk to your dad. I'm begging you, from someone who has list both and a dad when I was 5.
There is not a day in my life when I wish I had the time over

I'd go home early. You brought your son to stay and instead of being helpful or supportive he's judging your parenting and your sons character and being critical.

He could be helping you with him like a hands on grandparent would. It takes a village to raise a child and my kids who are all lovely adults now, were all hyper as little kids.
My mums side of the family were all the type to try and support me and I felt goodwill and love towards me and my children, whereas if I stayed with my dad, I'd come away feeling shit and defensive.

Maybe he's just not the sort of person to have kids over.

In your place, I would make time to talk to your father today and ask him frankly whether having you to stay is too much because your child appears to be annoying him. If so, can he give you a ride to the station and you'll all try again when your son is a bit older?

Just one thing though, please don't use food as a weapon to discipline your child. It's really bad for them and contributes to them developing eating disorders in later life.

Yeah, posting on mumsnet can be a "baptism of fire" sometimes!

I think part of the problem is your thread title. On the face of it, your dad wasn't unreasonable to tell your son off for his behaviour (at his - your dad's - table). It does sound as if he was unecessarily nasty about it though.

The real problem is your reaction and how YOU feel about this. You say your son was in floods of tears; as someone said upthread children get told off and they cry - that's normal. The "floods of tears" is about something else - kindly @Sparklesbigtoe I'm going to suggest that your son is picking up on your feelings of distress.

TBF calling you a "rubbish mum" is far more serious than shouting at your son for burping at the table. I think the real quesion here is should you leave because you don't think you can maintain an even keel for another 2 days (which I get can feel like FOREVER if you are distressed).

Two things can be true, son can be behaving badly AND dad can be too extreme how he dealt with it.

Really, it doesn’t matter what anyone thinks. If you don’t like the way your father disciplines your son, you can leave. If this is not normal behaviour for your son, then have a word with him about appropriate behaviour in different settings.

I’d walk to the station to leave an overbearing and controlling father and wouldn’t ever go back.

Your father is right,your son deserved telling off for his disgusting table manners, this isn't the first time your son has obviously done this, you clearly havnt pulled him up on in in the past,hence he thinks it's OK to do it. What makes it worse is he's done it in someone else's house.