AIBU to think if we need to politely ask men not to rape women (or men), then we don't want such people in the UK?

[bobbyydazzler]

Don't rape, sexually assault or make kissing noises' at people, asylum seekers warned in guidance about living in UK
UK arrivals have been told to treat women equally, not sexually assault partners or have sex with children in a new Home Office pamphlet. As well as the guidebook, a series of posters have also been designed by the government.

https://news.sky.com/story/asylum-seekers-warned-not-to-make-kissing-sounds-at-people-in-new-guidance-about-living-in-uk-13574744

This is quite a roving thread. Posters want to ban:.
asylum seekers from Sudan, Somalia, Afganistan, Eritrea and other countries which don't treat women well
all male asylum seekers
immigrants from India, Romania and Poland
non- Western immigrants.

Is that an accurate summary?

Agree

Also I don't think people understand that some very alarming cultural differences are then continued in some families even after being in the west for years.

So are you saying that all the homegrown men who rape women have a free pass then? Because it seems you are only concerned about asylum seekers when the stats prove rape or sexual assault happens more times by someone the victim knows. Rape crisis centres have long spoken out about this fact. I would say we should be concerned about all men.

We should also be concerned about the increasing number of sexual assaults happening in our very schools by boys born here and in the incel red pill movement.

(Former?) leftie here. 100% agree. Keep
them out.

That's bizarre logic. We have rapists so why not more?

We do receive this guidance. I've lived in the UK all my life, so I've absorbed all of this guidance from culture and the media over many years.

The same is not true for men from certain countries. Men in some countries literally have no understanding of the harm caused by sex without consent - because no one has ever explained it to them.

In some cases, literally the only time some of these men have seen western women is in pornography. So they develop a crazy idea that this is normal everyday behaviour for western women... hence why there have been cases of some immigrants openly groping women in the street, because they have no concept that what they are doing is wrong.

She isn't saying they should have a free pass at all. She said we shouldn't bring in men from worse nations who have worse views

We know how they behave towards women in some other countries. See Egypt, Turkey, Tunisia Etc.

Women are treated disgustingly. We shouldn't have to tell any man to not touch a woman without their consent. We have enough here alone, don't need more rapey eejits ugh.

And I mean any man. I honestly despair of them sometimes.

Imagine having to tell someone not to behave like a rapist ugh.

Being simplistic I think that David Cameron got one thing right - do the asylum in the camps and prioritise the women and children. I'm happy to have lots of women move here if we could have no men.

Those like the Afghani military support workers to whom we owe an obligation - they can come here and be contained on military bases until they've been through a big re education programme. Oh wait - misogyny in the armed forces is also rife... Maybe have a load of bad ass female sergeant majors do the training.

the official statistics of most European countries do show that foreign born people commit crimes at a higher rate than people born in that country.

Denmark publishes the stats in most detail but there’s plenty of other evidence from other western counties.

the US is slightly different as they have a much much higher crime rate than Western Europe generally and murders and rapes are much higher.

(possibly on that basis we should ban American migrants!)

so yes, this is true.

however the obvious response (don’t let anyone in from countries where the level of violence and/or misogyny is worse than Western Europe) means no immigration except from the EU (and even some of the EU countries are a bit suspect - the Balkan states have some not great records).

The U.K. cannot manage without immigration. We have a university sector that is funded from international students many of whom are not from Western Europe.

we desperately need carers and healthcare assistants and nurses and doctors and most of the migrants who come to fill those jobs come from societies that are more violent and more misogynistic than Western European ones.

as a country, we can just stop immigration. But there would be a massive, massive impact on our universities, our hospitals, our life generally.

Rapes and sexual assaults are happening inside the asylum seeker accommodation also, the Guardian reported on it. Migrant men committing rapes whilst living at our expense and then freely wandering around our communities, and we're expected to meekly accept this. I absolutely do not accept it and I'll vote against it at every opportunity.

It’s bizarre to think that no one here is bothered when these crimes are committed by White British born men and automatically think all asylum seekers are rapists in the making!

@Londonmummy66 'm happy to have lots of women move here if we could have no men.

I agree with giving women a massive priority over men, because it is so extremely rare for women to commit violent or dangerous crimes.

Though when I put this forward on the Guardian, my comment was promptly deleted. The Guardian believes we should be prioritising the men who arrive on small boats across the channel, instead of women.

It’s concerning when you see posters decry what we have. With this misplaced idea of what women endure elsewhere.

It’s so wrong, it took years to get to what our DDs have. They’d throw it away based on what? Not ever living in Afghanistan.

Also maybe they need to hand out these leaflets in schools too. Teach the boys here too! In fact give them to any man.

Having tried to work with MoJ stats before, I'm surprised the 'unknown' isn't higher.

I understand the concern. I'm not sure how immigration policy could do this well. Even awarding more points if someone is from a 'safer' country (not sure where the US would falls in this) doesn't seem like it would be a great fix. I know to some the answer is just to ban from those countries, I see the appeal, but am not as certain as others are.

I think the main issue is more that none of governments we've had particularly care. The Tories thundered on about reducing immigration for years, brought in hundreds of changes, and immigration only went up. They and their 'private partners' make money off of migration, they currently have little incentive to do more than say words. The leaflet is a sad attempt to badly bandage over issues with the low expectations to integrate and the larger issues of when we know like gangs bringing people in illegally, to do illegal work to pay off 'debts', those people get caught kicked out only to be brought back again - those people aren't getting the leaflets, most of the men I've known caught up in this have been Polish, Romanian, and Albanian. So little is being done about the things that are perpetuating all this, and no, I don't think Reform, Restore, or any of the others who claim they'll sort it care either. I live in an area that's been Reform since it was UKIP, once in power, they've done nothing but photo-ops

It was the US gov that in 2019 arrested and sought to prosecute Epstein.

After decades of people, mostly women, coming forward and being dismissed and still none of his many clients who used his inhumane services to commit horrific crimes have been prosecuted in the US.

I wonder which and how many of his clients he pissed off that he was thrown to the US government that is sheltering the rest of them.

And yes, I know Afghanistan and many other countries are worse and I've no interest in traveling there; however, I've lived in the US, am a US citizen by birth, and would not travel there either. Using the US government as a benchmark for anything ethics wise is a terrible move, same with parts of US culture where girls are blamed for "seducing" the men who rape them and 'child marriage' to make raping a child, usually a girl, is legal in most US states.

All in the name of ‘being kind’. Bonkers.

Why do you think no-one is bothered? That's a strawman.

• So are you saying that all the homegrown men who rape women have a free pass then?

No

• Because it seems you are only concerned about asylum seekers when the stats prove rape or sexual assault happens more times by someone the victim knows.

Not true, thoroughly illogical conclusion

• Rape crisis centres have long spoken out about this fact. I would say we should be concerned about all men.

Yes we should.

We should also be concerned about the increasing number of sexual assaults happening in our very schools by boys born here and in the incel red pill movement.

Yes we should

Well said

The whole yes but thing is an astonishing argument when talking about women and children getting attacked now

Two wrongs don't make a right etc

Also before the arrival of Islam in the 7th century, Afghanistan was a vibrant cultural and commercial crossroads connecting India, Persia, and China. It was a major center for Buddhism, Hinduism, and Zoroastrianism, and was ruled by a succession of diverse empires. It used to be quite nice and diverse be the sounds of it was taken over by a hostile ideology. Yes other countries have interfered but like in the middle east only one ideology has destroyed the diversity that existed.

Absolutely. Start with our own and pause the ones from alarmingly different cultural attitudes to women and same sex attracted. Wise.

Personally, my attitude is that misogyny from British born men is bad enough – the levels of sexual assault, child sex abuse, and domestic violence are terrible – and so it's important to stop bringing in more men who are raised in vastly more misogynistic environments, and statistically likely to be far worse.

Sort out one problem (the rife homegrown misogyny) before you decide to add another. And put British women's rights and safety ahead of asylum seeking men's – that's yet another example of misogyny, the way British women and girls are ranked below foreign men.

Where would let's say a German rather have their daughter go on holiday? A trip to London to see the culture and sites? Or a trip to Mogadishu?

Also we can take immigration we "need" from EU,eea, Switzerland and CANZUK + USA