AIBU to think some school policies are at least partially responsible for the rise in pupil unhappiness?

[Alittlebitofmin]

A friend’s kid described school like a prison. He is likely to be a school success story set to get really good grades, but sees school as something to mainly tolerate. AIBU to think the school system itself is at least a significant partial reason why teenagers report lower levels of happiness at schools in England? Schools seem increasingly punitive and restrictive, pressure seems high, some children are even made to feel guilty if they have a day off sick.

I was born same time and my school was nothing as she described - apart from the teachers having the ability to use a cane.
My teachers were kind, human and actually the kinder ones we worked harder for and did better as we really respected and liked them! Schools didn't push you though back then, it was up to you really if you wanted to learn. Uniforms if neat and tidy - and near enough correct were fine. No rules on school shoes. We were not locked in either, free to go to at lunch time.

My school was a run down one but despite all that, fond memories.

When I was at school in the 80s even our socks were inspected!
I must be one of the few people who went to a very strict state school. No one dared misbehave, because if you did you had to stand all day in the corner with a book on your head! Next step was a Saturday detention. Next permanent exclusion.
No one dared speak in the corridor. No one was rude to the teachers. No one was allowed to leave the lessons to get a drink or go to the toilet.
If you missed your bus you walked miles and miles to get home.

Yanbu. Kids shouldn't be scared about forgetting a ruler or not drinking because they can't get to the toilet easily. Being forced to wear a blazer when it's warm 🙄.

If I worked somewhere like that I'd be depressed to (I'd have left in a fortnight).

Has PE changed at all? I was only at school in the 2000s but it seemed the main aim of PE was to ensure nobody took any enjoyment in exercise or physical activity, and that they left school with negative associations of it.

Detention for forgetting a pen. Being made to wear lace up shoes, blazers, ties. All this and schools still miss bullying because there's little or no supervision during breaks/lunch

Oh my God typo, too (it's late)

Yes this - the role of a parent is to try to undo the negative feelings after Year 11!

Parents like me? You mean parents who were SENDCO for 10 years? Parents who recognised their child’s ASD/ADHD and asked for it to be properly assessed and then receive absolutely nothing despite all the evidence that the parent is correct? Those “types of parents” you mean?
I absolutely will not let it rest, because my child is entitled to an education. Luckily we have a fucking amazing secondary school he will be going to, but in the meantime I have to fight “teachers” like you who don’t believe my child should be allowed to exist in their school.

But things have improved on some levels, surely?

When I was at school (70s/80s), neurodivergence wasn’t a ‘thing’, nor were anti bullying policies or any kind of support.

The teachers were as cruel as the other pupils and would humiliate us and even occasionally lash out (despite it being illegal by then).

This wasn’t some inner city hellhole, this was an average school in a small town.

That said, it did encourage a certain level of independence - parents didn’t get involved in friendships or problems so we dealt with them.

But things have improved on some levels, surely?

When I was at school (70s/80s), neurodivergence wasn’t a ‘thing’, nor were anti bullying policies or any kind of support.

The teachers were as cruel as the other pupils and would humiliate us and even occasionally lash out (despite it being illegal by then).

This wasn’t some inner city hellhole, this was an average school in a small town.

That said, it did encourage a certain level of independence - parents didn’t get involved in friendships or problems so we dealt with them.

In the case of MATs (Multi Academy Trusts) they have policies of doing things as cheaply as possible. So it is due to the policies. Not necessarily of an individual school, but of the trust that is running them.

There is a horrific one in Sunderland. Permanently excluded over half of the students within a year of taking it over. It's like a prison camp in there. Staff bullied out. SLT screaming at students lined up in the playground. No SEN provision.

I agree, that governements have allowed it to happen. But it's profit driven. And the executive head and proxy heads lead the policy in the schools.

I’m a bit confused about the school refusing to assess.

Schools don’t assess, they are not qualified to assess and then diagnose. They should however be making reasonable adjustments to meet his needs. Is that what you meant?

In my area, schools don’t refer to CAMHS either but GPs do as it’s a mental health issue. If your school do have the ability to refer, have they done so? Have CAMHS received the referral? I do know our local CAMHS has a waiting list and it’s around 8mths for school anxiety. Are you able to find out how long the waiting list is? (I know the waiting list for assessment at CAMHS for ADHD/autism is 4 yrs, which is terrible.)

The intolerance to milk - that is shocking and I would ask the SENDCO for a health plan to be put in place to ensure lunch staff (and not just teaching staff) are aware.

We knew no different, so we got on with it. You had to, to survive.
Thank goodness we had no social media, to compare ourselves to others. At school we were all in the same boat.
Of course we found ways to rebel, but we were clever and rarely got caught!

People always talk about detentions for blazers or whatever as if that explains kids not wanting to be in school or not respecting their teachers.

However, my school is slack on uniform, there are no detentions for forgetting pens, and the kids do not behave, and they do not generally respect teachers and we still have kids who are too anxious to attend.

And we also still have parents kicking off that we are too strict so we are slackening off the behaviour policy again. What this will do is not create obedient kids, it's going to be fucking awful.

And what was behaviour and results like before at the school?

People always complain about the implementation of a strict behaviour policy, but never the shitty behaviour that necessitated it.

Steady on 😅. I said that I couldn't cope with the amount of additional need in the class and that it may not be malice like you think it is. In fact, it was mainly due to SENDCO and SLT agreeing to additional provision without providing any resources. You make me realise why I left.

School isn't designed to educate, it's there to train the next generation of compliant tax payers. So for anyone who questions anything or has ideas outside of being a "good little tax payer" it will be a pretty horrendous place.

In our LA, the school have to do an “initial assessment” before they send the paperwork to Healios/BeeU for the child to be assessed. They have refused point blank to do the initial assessment.
The GP here also doesn’t refer to CAHMS, it has to be done through the school, again the school are refusing to actually send any paperwork anywhere. We fill out probably close to 30 forms each school year; and all we have been told is “the school will not be proceeding with this matter” or “the school feels Pupil X does not require treatment from Y service”
My main issue is the SENDCO, who refuses to pass on any information. I have actually been to the school myself and handed over copies of their own medical form filled out and given them to the lunchtime staff. They still made him drink milk. (All children must finish their drink and at least 2/3 of their meal before they are allowed to leave)
No reasonable adjustments were made for either child.

SENDCOs don’t do Health Care Plans.
IHCPs are only done for students with serious medical needs, of which there are many.
I don’t believe any child would be forced to eat food. More like they wanted it and didn’t want to be different. And considering every other child has a food allergy of some sort, you cannot expect canteen staff to remember every pupil.
Secondary school children need to make the right decisions and not knowingly eat food they are allergic to.

Exactly that - I left school having under achieved to a shocking extent (I didn’t dare go home for several days after my O level results) but I don’t regret it now because it turns out I am very good at a subject that didn’t even exist back then!

To an extent I agree. But adults bullying children en masse (even the good ones), as well as teachers as an active policy to force them out isn't good management. Not when the staff they want out just happen to be older, more experience/expensive teachers.

I would home school, rather than send my children to a school like that. And I am otherwise not a fan of homeschooling.

But that sort of school would have done my children so much good! Some sort of discipline, showing that rules were to be followed, giving kids the peace and safety they needed to learn. Instead they are getting near the end of the Scottish school system and they loathe it due to the thugs that rule the school unfettered by the teaching staff.

They just want a quiet, safe place to learn. The lack of discipline means that that was not on offer. There’s a reason why ultra strict schools like Michaela thrive - they provide bright kids just the environment needed to get the best out of themselves.

I think a lot of the unhappiness isn’t schools stems from the lack of opportunities and interest in those that aren’t academically gifted. We need a Grammar system brought back, and more investment in pathways to jobs in trades etc, apprenticeships. Everyone should get the opportunity to thrive and that isn’t happening just now.

It also depends on the definition of bullying though. Some people think that a teacher reprimanding their child is bullying

Exactly! Whenever there’s a post on AIBU that starts ‘Should I complain to the school because they…’ my mind immediately says ‘no’. Then I read the AIBU and my mind screams ‘No’.

If there’s a school uniform policy, follow it. If you need to bring a pen, bring a pen. If you can only use the loos at break, use the loos at break. How hard is this stuff? How is any of it unreasonable?

I think we intuitively knew where the boundary lay. There was a strange rule in the summer. In the summer at school, you could take your blazer and tie off, but you had to put them both back on to go home. I think what mattered was how the school was perceived in the town. Six formers were allowed to leave the school at lunchtime and were expected to take their tie and blazer off if they smoked.