Lindsay Clancy was let down

[hds873banana]

For those of you who may not know, Lindsay Clancy is an American mother who killed her three children (all under age 5) then tried to commit suicide by throwing herself out of a window, and is now wheelchair bound as a result. Her defence is she was in the throws of post natal psychosis.

You can watch the full trial on Court TV. The trial is ongoing now.

She was totally let down by the system, the doctors, maybe even her husband. I’ve never watched a full trial and been so appalled at what I am seeing and hearing. Kevin Reddington her lawyer needs an award.

It is interesting to me because I have a close relative who I’ve cared for for over a decade who is regularly in psychosis. The lack of understanding of psychosis generally is wild. I My relative can slip in and out of psychosis on a minute by minute basis some days.

I really hope Lindsay’s defence lawyer gets the best outcome for her even though her life is completely ruined whatever the outcome of the trial.

Men do sometimes kill their kids because they are psychotic, but in many cases the reason is revenge on their wife, which they have admitted to her or someone else, or because they have wanted to start a new life with a new woman.

Women are at the highest risk of severe mental health conditions during times of hormonal upheaval — puberty, the first year postpartum, and perimenopause/menopause.

In this case her own husband said she was a wonderful mother until something went very wrong. That something was well documented. She didn’t suddenly do this and then claim psychosis, she was desperately trying to get help for sometime.

I marched my 1 week old daughter round to some scrap dealing iffy neighbours to accuse them of nicking my car. I hadn't noticed the car had gone since coming out of hospital.
Thankfully the woman said if I didn't think you were mad with that new born I'd knock yer block off. She would have done as well.
I was paranoid more than anything. It was bloody awful.

And you're right, but we both can be right because nobody will ever know what was going on in her mind. I'm not saying she's guilty, I'm just wondering how it could happen (I know, I can't know, nobody can) 3 children would take time effort and strength.

Nobody will know. It's heartbreaking. I was just wondering about going from murderous to remorse. Like you said though it could have all been voices.

I hope she didn't know what she was doing because the alternative is just awful. That's the point of a trial though. Someone has to make these decisions based on evidence. I'm glad it's not me.
I'm going to have to watch it now.
Like I said, that's the only thing that struck me. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm not saying I'm wrong either.

@BibbityBoppityTwo Women are at the highest risk of severe mental health conditions during times of hormonal upheaval — puberty, the first year postpartum, and perimenopause/menopause.

So true 😢 I'm going through menopause and really struggling with MH.

It’s sadly not acknowledged enough in real life, despite being well supported by the evidence base. It’s exceedingly common for women to experience mental health problems for the first time in their lives at these stages, so they and their families are completely unprepared for such an unprecedented experience and they don’t get the help they need soon enough.

I ended up under the crisis team a couple of years ago and they told me that more research is being put into menopause and MH and the affect on those already struggling with MH.
I kept getting told I was peri because I was 49 with bleeding issues - hysteroscopy confirmed I was post menopausal. Looking back it makes sense, the anger mainly, I would have picked a fight with anybody. The exhaustion. Even blood tests showed me end of meno but I was told they were too unreliable. I went through it whilst I had the Mirena so didn't even have periods to go by.
I don't sweat any more thank goodness after this summer!!
There's probably a few people I should apologise to though...

So it's different to regular old psychosis? She's special because she's a woman and a mother? I guess that's a get out of jail card.

Most men do not kill children because they are psychotic. They kill them for the same reasons they commit domestic violence — power and control. Usually it’s related to custody and deciding that if they don’t get their children, neither does she. Or to punish her for leaving them. Women and their children are at the highest risk of being murdered by a man in the months immediately following a separation.

Any person comitting a crime in the midst of a psychotic outbreak will be deemed mentally ill and not responsible of his actions (man or woman) of course this has to be proven. There needs to be a history of mental illness and psychosis. A dotting mother who loved her children then falls prey to a terrible mental illness that makes her hear voices and tells her to kill her children is a tragedy of epic proportions, a system that failed her, a system that doesn't pay enough attention to the MH risks that come with having children. If this shyte was taken seriously maybe these kids would still be alive.

@toiletpaperthief so you feel the exact same amount of sympathy for Valdo Calocane then?

As horrifically painful as the case is, and as much as I too can only imagine psychosis is the cause, I think there does still have to be a court case, as 3 children lost their lives. It is still important to establish, as far as possible, the reason for this, in a court of law.

Both were mentally ill, both had psychosis, both commited heinous crimes in the midst of a psychotic breakdown. One drove a van killing several people he didn't know the other one killed her own children that she loved so much (now the prosecution is trying to paint her as a cold blooded psycopath). I believe this thread is about all the debate sorrounding the latter and post natal MH not being taken seriously. The Valdo Calocane is a whole different can of worms. (Feel free to open a thread and trash the British MH system how it failed the public etc... and i will support you).

I wrote before here on mums net about my experience with my daughter-in-law who we had to separate from her baby because she became psychotic. That was the first thing that came to mind - keep the baby safe.

My daughter-in-law never drifted in and out of psychosis as someone mentioned their relative did. When she went over the edge, she stayed over the edge. It was very traumatic to witness. She didn't come back to her senses until she had a dozen rounds of electroconvulsive therapy after two months in a psych ward. Meds didn't help at all. We later found out she was put on mental health drugs when she 14 and again when she went psychotic in her early 20's. Her family should have mentioned this to my son.

I don't understand how a father could leave a mother alone with children when she has serious mental problems. She was on a ton of meds for it. Here (U.S.) postpartum psychosis s treated as a medical emergency. Her family should have known better than to leave her alone with three little children. This is not the first time something like this has happened.

I didn’t know about this case. Yes I have been living under a rock for some time and trying to avoid news.

I just read about this case. It’s so tragic but I find it strange that with a year of losing all his 3 kids, he was in a new relationship. Apparently, new wife is so vivacious, she helped him heal his trauma in a year.

He started dating her within months of the tragedy. I can’t help but suspect that he may have killed the kids and tried to kill his wife and as she had a compromised mental health, she thinks she did it. Also, even if he didn’t kill kids, why he left his kids with their mother was listening such voices. He just asked her and she said she can manage the kids alone. Both parents failed those sweet kids.

Why did she listen to that voice?

This is what can’t be explained to someone who hasn’t experienced psychosis. You feel completely controlled by the voice. There is no mental ability to make “choices”. It is very literally like being inside a nightmare where the normal rules of the world don’t apply. You are completely disconnected from reality and all sense of control.

Research psychosis. As per the dad killing his children and other weird conspiracies you need to watch the trial, if you want to go down the conspiracy rabbit hold there's many videos on tik tok explaining it was Donald Trump who did it. Strange place the internet

She wasn’t in psychosis state all the time.

Yes I understand she was under psychosis. But if she said she didn’t know what she was doing was one thing. But she said she heard a male noise tell her to do that. If someone tells you to
kill your child, you won’t do. So why does a person follow that voice in psychosis state? Did she hate children in that state or she thought killing them was better for kids in some ways? Well the difference between her ex and Donald Trump is that it wasn’t Donald Trump who founds kids and mother right after the incident, so suspecting Trump makes no sense.

So it’s loss of control rather than thinking she was sending her kids to a safe place. I was confused because she said later kids are safe now.

They just do. Why is the sky blue. Why do women even get postpartum depression. Why is the human body and mind not better at times of hormonal upheaval. We could go on forever. I’ve seen a very close relative in psychosis often and I now just accept the complete insanity that often comes from their mind. But because I’ve known them my entire life I know for 100% they have zero control. If someone called me tonight to tell me my relative say killer someone with a knife, despite it being 110% out of character for their ‘usual’ self, sadly I would believe it was possible. It takes time spent with people in psychosis and knowing them for a long time before it happens, to fully understand how psychosis can make anyone do anything.

It’s a loss of control of normal, rational thought processes. You’re controlled by voices and delusions that leave you 100% convinced of whatever they are telling you.

On her knees but not following the medical advice or treatment? Ok

I don't know how we could claim that she was anything other than insane when she killed her children.

It is extremely unusual for that to happen - the very rarity implies a brain that is functioning well outside of normal brains surely?

I heard someone explain it like a car with no steering wheel. The engine is still working, so the car runs, the person can look normal, understand things are going wrong etc but they can't control what they do. It's very hard to imagine but she's not the first, this is part of psychosis.

Where she is being tried, the insanity defence considers both whether they understood what they were doing and whether they had control of themselves at the time.

Yes, it’s a completely different situation to one where the woman has always been an abusive parent and the family are known to social services.