AIBU to ask what views of TR people object to?

[Hoops123]

There is a lot of hate towards TR on many of these threads. Im interested to know what of his opinions etc that people are so outraged by? And please no ‘he’s a bigot’ ‘he’s a facist’ just pure and simple he says x and I think he’s wrong for y reason

"I think a lot of this is about the fact hes working class, rough as nuts (the ball scratching and yawning was pretty funny), "

His pal Fox is definitely not working class.
His views are very similar to those of Robinson's only said with a public school drawl.

It doesn't make them any more palatable to people who are not bigots.

There is a classist element to this for sure but not in the way seanconneryseyebrow thinks

@Whatafustercluck Would you prefer I referred to 'underclass' then? Maybe what should be more accurate of me to say is that he isnt terribly refined, educated, articulate, and doesnt have a plum in his mouth.

I think kellie-jay keen says a lot of the things he says, and JKR, but I wonder if its considered more acceptable because of the way they present.

Just my ponderings this afternoon....could be talking bollox.

yeh good point.

can you elaborate?

For me, personally, it’s him being a racist, homophobic, transphobic, Islamophobic, misogynist, white supremacist, fascist, thick as fuck, coke addled grifter that I object to. No redeeming features whatsoever and an incendiary gobshite who will say anything that will make gullible fools part with their money.

I think that about covers it.

I did before. Working class girls were (and still are) looked down on, talked about as if they were slags, seen as a social "problem". This included tackling the problem of teenage pregnancy which is a good thing, but often approached from the angle of the pregnant teenage girls being a problem. Coronation street did a very sensitive story line around a pregnant teenager way back, but it is interesting to look back at it and see that at no point did the authority figures do any hard investigation into who had got her pregnant (in the story it was a peer but in real life it can be an adult and that wasn't considered). More commonly were the much more unpleasant stereotypes against teen mums/benefit claimants/girls getting pregnant to get a council house. Pushed heavily by the tabloids. I can remember a scandal around a 14 year old getting pregnant with a much older (white as it happens) man in my area and the general opinion was that she was a slag. The adults might say that "those girls know what they are doing".
I would love to say that it was in the past, and there was a teeny tiny bit of progress where we started to consider maybe underage teenage girls are children even if they are WC. But then you got the recent comments around Angela Raynor and working class girls being "obsessed with sex". You brushed that of as being unimportant because it doesn't fit with your view of what the problem is.

At the other end of that is this weird fetishisation of "the Working Class", especially "The Working Class Male" as some sort of authentic authority on masculinity, or salt of the earth knowledge untainted by university or book learning. (Which is stupid. I know plenty of people in working class jobs who are widely read and highly intelligent. And also some that are stupid wankers. And some that are widely read and intelligent and wankers). The fetishisation is often done by people who wouldn't fit into the working class category themselves. And SYL is happy to play that game. To the extent of changing his name to sound more "salt of the earth". And because he has the "right" opinions and acts a bit thuggish he gets referred to as a working class man even though, as others have pointed out, he hasn't really worked much at all. Which if you actually stop and think is kind of snobby. What he is is a bully, and that transcends class lines.

But there will be plenty of people on here saying they grew up in Luton, went to the same school as SYL, are also working class. They don't count though because they don't have the "right" opinions like good old SYL.

Whats he said thats homophobic? ive just watched hours of him, and he talks a lot about one of his issues with Islam being that gay people are oppressed.

As the founder of the English Defence League and a member of the BNP he literally is a racist, racist, islamaphobe.

His many convictions demonstrate he is a lawless thug.

UKIP won’t even admit him to membership- that should tell you something.

The deliberate act of ball scratching etc so that people can go "teeheehee what an authentic working class guy" is actually kind of vile to be honest.

Then I suggest you look further. He is homophobic.

Calling Pride an abomination, calling the Pride flag, “the sodomite flag” and calling people the f slur should give you a starter for 10, and before you say, “But, but…that’s just common sense…”, it’s not, it’s homophobia.

I agree about the judgement of working class girls. Im not sure what that has to do with TR though - please enlighten me? Are you referencing this because of his work around the grooming gangs? FWIW I do believe that part of that issue with Rotherham etc wasn't just that the police were worried about being seen as racist but they really don't care about rape victims full stop, but especially teen girls of any race. And especially working class girls.

A generalisation some might say, but I am basing this on my work at MASH where we worked alongside the police and I had to advocate and complain so much about the way they treated teen rape victims. And in MASH these are the police who are supposed to be the best of the best with safeguarding as they have all the training and are dedicated to that role, so goodness knows how bad it was with normal police officers. I found the attitudes mind blowing and deeply troubling, so much so I did a workshop on police attitudes towards teen girls in our LA - you can imagine how that went down! So im not at all surprised that the grooming gangs were left to go on so long. Not sure where I brushed this view off and said it wasn't important??

The working class hero point - thats always been a thing hey. Do you think hes playing up to it or hes really like that? I mean the really elaborate yawning, scratching his nuts etc - surely no one would think that was ok. This wasn't when the other side was talking - this was his side! Seemed performative, or maybe some people really are that uncouth. As hes a public speaker Id be surprised he doesnt know common ettiquette, or maybe he doesnt care.

He actually said those things? Grim.

Don't want to be that person - I am genuinely interested its not a gotcha - but can you show me sources for that?

My working class childhood and youth was peppered with a certain type of ball scratching/yawning working class bloke who used his bodily functions, bad language, bad behaviour, aggression and general thugginess to mark territory, intimidate and control other people - especially women.

Thankfullly most working class boys are taught good manners and learn to be civilized, decent human beings. But not all. Perhaps SYL falls into the latter category.

To add. The thuggy male isn't specific only to the working class.

I think it's more that the people attracted to SYLs "advocacy" aren't interested in any of the other reasons abuse of girls (and boys) happened. There was a much wider story around both class and the police forces,/authorities in the areas most affected. Everyone will always look at horrific events from one angle that's fine. But the insistence that all the attention in the issue is on them and their concerns actually amounts, in practice, to an attempt to cover up the wider problem not just to ignore it. You only need to read back through your own replies to other posters to see proof of that. I also find it hard to believe you were that bothered about the polices attitudes as described in your last post, given you were so blase about similar attitudes a page earlier.

I don't know why you keep asking for more and more evidence of what Robinson is like. Hasn't enough been posted on this thread already?

I suspect you will never acknowledge the truth about him. Either because you
are deriving some bizarre enjoyment out of being contrary and demanding more and more evidence or because you actually support TR and want to keep the thread going so that his views get more exposure on this forum. Whichever it is, it is rather ghastly tbh.

To add. The thuggy male isn't specific only to the working class.

Agree. The worst example of ball scratching, abusive, no manners person I know went to a very expensive all boys private school. He took lots of cocaine as well. But if all you need to do to be considered "working class" is act like a thuggy male then by definition all thuggy males are working class

I genuinely don't know what you mean. I am widely bothered by police attitudes towards rape and DV victims. I have heavily advocated for them - as I said I created and ran a workshop where I worked because it bothered me so much. Where did I say I didnt care about that?

The truth is because Im genuinely fascinated and want to learn more about it. Im a critical thinker, and no one is giving me actual facts. Its lots of unsubstantiated claims that hes just a big meanie.

I just looked up about the homophobia. He has said none of those things the other poster stated. He said he didn't liek that Pride was all about TQ+ and not LGB. (I agree). He said he doesn't like Drag Queen Story Time because of child safeguarding (I agree) and he doesnt like that Pride now is not a place for kids due to how sexual it has become (I agree). If hes homophobic for that then so am I! (and im gay, lol).

So unless someone can show me evidence otherwise I think all of this is people just being trendy and jumping on the bandwagon. Its trendy not to like him basically, and no one wants to actually question what he really has said and done. If you like TR = bad person, If you don't = good person. Just like it was with JKR 5 years ago. I mean someone said he was a rapist ffs!

God people really need to have their own minds and look at evidence!!!

@Hoops123 - Im with you on this. You wont get any sense from folk on here.

Just like it was with JKR 5 years ago

I don't think JK Rowling would like you drawing parallels between her and Tommy Robinson. There is no comparison.

I mean someone said he was a rapist ffs!

No, that poster clarified she talking about Andrew Tate.

Its lots of unsubstantiated claims that hes just a big meanie

People have backed up their claims with evidence.

I suggest people stop engaging with you as IMO you may not be posting in good faith.

This thread and your question is the reason I can’t stand him.

In the nicest possible way, some people are intellectually challenged and it’s not an insult because it’s not your fault.

I don’t know your background but you could have had undiagnosed ND, been a young carer, from a culture that didn’t prioritise education etc.

I also think you can be very smart/intelligent and not go to uni etc as intelligence doesn’t always equal education.

Not everyone has the same experience as everyone else.

But TR preys on those who are vulnerable due to having a lower intelligence and I absolutely hate it.

When TR says something good and something I agree with, he’s literally saying the same thing as thousands of other people but for some reason his followers feel it’s more powerful because it came from him.

Someone said about how he spoke up about grooming gangs and how if it wasn’t for him people wouldn’t know about it - which is complete BS!!

He only started speaking about them years after they’d happened and had already been in the news and had entire documentaries done about them.

He also only ever mentions crimes committed by non-white people.

There are multiple cases of grooming gangs and pedo rings, the majority are obviously white. He even has friends who have been arrested for rape, grooming and being a nonce - yet he doesn’t mention any of these - so it’s obviously not women and girls he truly cares about.

Oh yeah and let’s not forget that he doesn’t even live in this country and has a house in Spain and a second home in the Canary Islands, all paid for because of his unpaid tax and donations from vulnerable followers.

He’s an immigrant in a different country but bangs on about immigration - make it make sense 🤦‍♀️

Sorry the specific quote I was thinking of came from General Peter not you. But also I'm not just talking about "the police attitude to rape". I was talking about a very wide, encouraged by the tabloids and talking heads that working class girls were obsessed with sex, up for it, somehow more adult. Every time this gets brought up it gets brushed of by people who only want to talk about Muslims.

And in terms of the police in places like Rochdale, it's not just some general "attitude" that needs reforming with workshops. It was the police and authorities warning male victims of abuse in boys borstals that if they pursued a criminal complaint the information would "leak" on their estate, police and authorities ignoring the ongoing abuse in boys children's homes for decades, the police ignoring the grooming and abuse of vulnerable teenage girls by Asian grooming gangs AND white grooming gangs. All in the same very small area. That's much more than either an "attitude towards rape victims" or "fear of being called unPC" and the insistence on the "UnPC" excuse downgrades what actually happened. But now they can all use the get out of jail card of "we were scared of being called racist" and everyone will clap like seals and say you SEE.

But amongst all the rather ponderous philosophical "musings" around Islam and the angry frothing about Islam those issues get ignored and the wheel turns and a different group gets the job of grooming children into prostitution.

He said he doesn't like Drag Queen Story Time because of child safeguarding

Is this position not slightly hypocritical, given that there is evidence that a number of people who were associates, supporters, or prominent figures within the English Defence League (EDL), which Tommy Robinson founded and led, were later convicted of child sexual abuse or child sexual exploitation offences? Does he cast the same aspersions, apply the same scrutiny, make the same points, about people within his own ranks?

He is the voice of not a single 'regular person' I know, am related to, or work with. Maybe the 'regular people' you know just aren't very nice or perhaps aren't able to think critically and independently about the root causes of the problems in their lives, and so are too easily swayed by untrue rhetoric.

I think he spreads hate, is ill-informed and has used his platform to whip up hate mobs against innocent people (like the post he retweeted about a black man playing in the park with his white step-grandchildren.)

He also claims to care about women and children yet has performed actions putting them at risk (such as negatively retweeting an ad for domestic violence services aimed at ethnic minority women.)