AIBU to be deeply concerned about the recent influx of 30k+ undocumented arrivals in Spain?

[ChirpyUmberBiscuit]

AIBU to feel really unsettled by the recent news coming out of Spain and Ceuta? Reports are showing that tens of thousands of undocumented migrants have crossed over in such a short window, completely overwhelming local infrastructure, reception centers, and security forces.

I know migration is always a sensitive and compassionate topic, but looking at these numbers practically, I don't see how any European border region can absorb 30,000 to 50,000 arrivals almost overnight without severe strain on public resources, local housing, and emergency services.

What worries me even more is the precedent it sets for the rest of Europe and the UK down the line. Surely there has to be a firm balance between humanitarian support and actual, enforceable border control?

Am I being completely unreasonable to view this as a serious policy and security crisis, or are others feeling equally concerned about where this leads?

Would love to hear honest thoughts on how this should actually be handled!

@IcedCoffee26 ,

They can’t just go direct to Spain but they can claim asylum and then cross into Spain and beyond, assuming their claim is allowed.

There are reasons whereby Moroccans can claim asylum. More to the point, how many of the 60,000 were transiting through Morocco from sub Saharan Africa ? I can’t really find an answer to that.

If so, depending where they are from, they may well make their way to the Uk.

Now, I agree with you, this particular wave of immigration will have a minimal effect on the UK, but it is symptomatic of larger migration waves, and is thus worthy of discussion.

It’s a really thorny issue, because neither side is ‘on the right side of history’ and messy compromises will have to be made. We need immigration and we also should be compassionate, but how many and where from does matter.

So claiming asylum in Spain is not at all straightforward.

It requires an appointment. These are difficult to obtain.

https://www.abogacia.es/actualidad/noticias/la-abogacia-denuncia-la-vulneracion-del-derecho-de-asilo-ante-la-imposibilidad-de-obtener-una-cita-por-internet/ see this information.

https://www.elsaltodiario.com/migracion/batalla-conseguir-citas-asilo

And this information.

If you don't request asilo within 30 days, your request can be refused entry into the system. There is some flexibility if you can prove genuine reason for the delay in requesting it, but again, not straightforward.

It requires that you acredit a genuine need for protection - again, difficult and has to meet certain requirements outlined in the law. Showing up and saying "I'm gay and it's dangerous for me" is not going to cut it.

You can be rejected if you have a criminal record. You can be rejected if it is considered that you pose a risk to Spanish public safety.

It takes a very very long time to be approved (think over a year). You can usually work in this time but you cannot leave Spain.

So again. It isn't just "come, pick up your asylum docs, laugh all the way around the EU"

https://www.boe.es/buscar/act.php?id=BOE-A-2009-17242

Here's the law.

So claiming asylum in Spain is not at all straightforward.

So who tricked them into thinking it was straightforward and provided tens of thousands of identical rubber rings?

No problem.

What on earth is wrong with you? You are showing humanity and kindness. I fear you are in the wrong place.

Said ironically.

Excellent question.

It wasn't us though.

And the fact that so many voluntarily return so quickly and peacefully shows that the "they have criminal intent" rhetoric was a bit....hasty.

Further, for those worried about the Regularización Extraordinaria that recently took place...

The majority of applicants were from Latin America

Your post goes on to say;

'Spanish nationality by residence is normally only available to those who have lived here legally for a minimum of 10 years, with the exception of certain groups - nationals of former Spanish colonies (2 years of legal residency)'

Didn't Spain have vast colonies in Latin America? So, the majority of applicants will only need a further 2 years of legal residency (after the first year) before gaining Spanish nationality and EU citizenship? That would explain why other EU countries are concerned.

Looking at some recent high-profile murders in the UK:

Killer 'extremist' Ahmed Alid (born in Morocco) first entered the EU via Spain;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4n1myeprveo
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ex3x1kn33o

Hainault sword killer Marcus Monzo (born in Brazil, Spanish mother) was able to move to the UK via his dual Spanish citizenship;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68968817

Nottingham killer Valdo Calocane (born in Guinea-Bissau) came to the UK with his family via Portuguese citizenship;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-68080872

@IcedCoffee26 ,

I very much doubt many (if any) have criminal intent. Ultimately the real criminals find far easier ways of entering the EU than a perilous swim.

They are mostly economic migrants. I mean, if you grow up in a country with an average income of, say $2,000 on a PPP basis (that would be Somalia), wouldn’t EU residency be the promised land?!

But that doesn’t mean we can just take them all.

I am curious as to your views on immigration? How many and where from? I think it is very easy to be sympathy, far harder to parameterise it into criteria.

Yes that's right. Citizens of former Spanish colonies have the right to request citizenship after 2 years of legal residency instead of 10. There are also provisions for Sephardic Jews with links to Spain to obtain Spanish nationality without any requirement for residency.

But since Brexit you don't have to worry about our citizens freely moving to the UK so out nationality laws should not be a concern.

And again - having a criminal record is a reason for denial of nationality.

Unfortunately a lot of posts get buried beneath the rather silly “you’re racist”, “Tommy and Nigel” and “well white people commit crimes, most of the crimes committed in the UK are by the British” or ridiculous posts about colonialism and climate change immigration theories which means we sometimes miss the more informative posts.

I don’t have time to look back through pages of who’s said what but I have just looked back and seen one of your more recent posts which I feel you have explained very well about the asylum/ immigration law and borders. It’s a very interesting point you have made about the immigration law and entering a country via the sea. It makes sense now why Spain have put the ‘floating border’ in place. Unfortunately it appears to be a “loophole” in the system that many have been taking advantage of for years.

But since Brexit you don't have to worry about our citizens freely moving to the UK so our nationality laws should not be a concern.

You posted the laws for consideration. Illustrating one reason not to rejoin the EU. Although, how many applicants are under age 30/35? The UK is negotiating a youth mobility deal with the EU.

I don't think anyone from let's say Spain or Portugal has an inherent right to move to this country. I do think it should be relatively easy for someone from that nation to move here for work or to stay and live (whilst not claiming benefits) but I don't think it should be a right for anyone who isn't a citizen

I think that it is fine if the UK does not wish to rejoin the EU.

You guys voted out, I don't think you should be able to come back too easily otherwise it sets a standard that countries can leave and come back, IE opt out of cooperation when it suits and come back when it suits.

The UK should consider that even if you wanted to come back, you might not be granted the right to do so, particularly given the fact that there are various examples of the UK disregarding EU laws when you were members (one example that comes to mind is the UK maintaining whole life sentences despite this being in contravention of EU human rights legislation and the banning of torture).

Wayne Couzens fully deserved a whole life tariff

IcedCoffee26
And again - having a criminal record is a reason for denial of nationality

Apparently, it's relatively easy to cancel/expunge your criminal record in Spain after a waiting period;

The cancellation of a criminal record (cancelación de antecedentes penales) is a legal procedure in Spain that allows a conviction to be removed from the official registry of the Ministry of Justice.

Once cancelled, the record is no longer visible in background checks.

https://www.gbabogados.co.uk/cancel-criminal-record-spain/

Probably even the death penalty as well

I think you are referring to an ECHR ruling - we haven't left the ECHR (yet). It seems there was a clarification/compromise in the end;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31110814
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/feb/03/european-human-rights-whole-life-tariff-hutchinson

I read an article in the Guardian today that Moroccan border officials allowed Morrocan but not from Sub Saharan citizens through. This was an eye witness account. Maybe also explains why they returned so quickly.

@IcedCoffee26 ,

‘The UK should consider that even if you wanted to come back, you might not be granted the right to do so, particularly given the fact that there are various examples of the UK disregarding EU laws when you were members (one example that comes to mind is the UK maintaining whole life sentences despite this being in contravention of EU human rights legislation and the banning of torture).’

The EU would have us back in a heartbeat, although we wouldn’t get the same sweet deal. We are still a major country with a huge GDP and would be a net contributor.

@IcedCoffee26 where my family live in Italy there has been an influx of South American immigrants who seem to be involved in gangs. They have come via Spain.

You are clearly well versed in Spanish immigration law, but that’s not really the point. Spain is clearly being seen as a stepping stone into the rest of Europe, not an end point.

I have full faith that this government will put a stop to it. Not only that, I'm certain they will deport the 1 million plus that are here illegally and working in the black market, overstaying visas etc.

Italy has a significantly larger issue than we do regarding irregular entries aka the protection of their borders.

I would argue that knowledge of Spanish immigration law and policy is fairly useful in a thread like this why people are panicking precisely because they have zero knowledge of our laws.

It is not "easy" and it depends on the nature of the sentence when this can be done. Furthermore, if you commit an offence which carries a prison sentence of over a year whilst on a temporary residency (IE your first five years) then you are likely to be deported. Look at art. 89.1 of our penal code.
https://www.boe.es/buscar/act.php?id=BOE-A-1995-25444#a89

Also are your family Italian or British migrants to Italy?

Or are you an Italian migrant to the UK?

@IcedCoffee26 No, not expats if you think that’s a gotcha.

But even if we were, no one is roaming round in male gangs committing petty and not so petty crimes.