WIBU to shut the door?

[JakeyRolling]

Out and about with DC8 who is doubly incontinent due to disability but otherwise “looks” normal and is ambulatory.

As such we have a radar key.

Today we happened to be able to access a Changing Places toilet while out and about.

For those who don’t know these are larger than a standard disabled toilet and have additional facilities such as a changing bed and hoist.

We use them as DC is too big for the baby changing tables.

As we came out some women who obviously didn’t want to wait in the queue that was snaking past the Changing Places facility tried to grab the door to hold it open.

I firmly shut it and told them “you need a key to access it”, and got abuse for it.

My reasoning is that if every man and his dog Is given access to the disabled toilets, then they are not available when disabled people need them and they also become filthy.

If she had been disabled herself, she would’ve had a radar key.

Yanbu, can’t stand people who do this. Same breed who will queue for the lift while wheelchair users have to keep waiting

You did the right thing, or everyone would just keep holding the door open for the next person.

well not necessarily as I wouldn't have known how to get one when DS was little (and yes, he's disabled) so if she'd been queuing specifically outside your loo, I would have left it open for her, as she would be more likely to be there for need.

if she's jumped out of a queue for the standard loos then it's more reasonable to refuse.

I would have left the door for them. Seems mean not to as obviously they are used and needed a lot less.

She wasn’t queueing for that specific loo. She was in the queue for the ladies, which went past the door to the Changing Spaces loo.

They are needed - by disabled people, who shouldn’t have to wait when they’re dedicated facility is being used by someone who does not need it.

Not at all unreasonable. If she has a need for such facilities then she can get her own key otherwise she can wait in the queue to use the ladies toilets like she was already before she saw an opportunity to cut the line.

I understand why you did what you did, but I probably would have let her use it

But when they are needed by a disabled person, then they need to be available. Being used by a disabled person - absolutely fine, another disabled person will have to wait. But no disabled person should be waiting while someone is using it when they shouldn’t be.

I had changing places toilet installed in my old studio, as I taught art classes for disabled people. And anyone who tried to use it instead of waiting for the other toilet more than once, got banned from my studios. It isn’t for them.

How do you know she didn’t have her key on her, or couldn’t find it in her bag, had given up hope, then saw you coming out? She was probably really desperate and I would never think to police the empty toilet like that. I’m sure you feel really good about yourself though and won’t take this in - it leaps off the page.

I'm on the fence with this one.

I was sitting on a bench not far from a lift in the shopping centre last week, and around 15 people were waiting for the lift to go up to the 2nd and 3rd floors...

8 people crammed into the lift, (maximum amount) and a woman with a man in a wheelchair was like, 10th/11th in the queue, and she started going bonkers, ranting and raving at how DISGUSTING it was that people all hogged the lift and didn't let her and the man with the wheelchair in. (Would have only been room for 3 other people with the her, and wheelchair/guy in the wheelchair in the lift too.) She was ranting and cussing as the lift doors closed and it went up... No-one got out and everyone stayed in the lift.

I thought 'what right does she have to rant at people getting into a lift? People who got there first?' Out of the 8 people, 4 of them were 75+, and out of the other 4, how does she know there wasn't some kind of disability involved?

Very arrogant and presumptuousness of her I thought, and rude. The other people were there first. AND she knows fuck-all about why people were using the lift. And as I said, 4 of them were at least 75!

I do agree with @JakeyRolling however, that the woman in this scenario was rude and entitled.

I think you had a responsibility to close the door - the radar key/ access to this loo is something you’re trusted with (I know you can buy radar keys but in theory). If you held the door for her then she could hold it for someone else, and on and on.

It then becomes more than likely a disabled person will be made to wait, and also then you’ve given responsibility for that loo to all and sundry.

So I think you were 100% NBU

I'm sure had that been the case she wouldn't have been abusive to the OP. She sounds like an entitled person who didn't like being questioned at using facilities not designed for her.

Your post suggests you don't have any family or friends who have no choice but to use these toilets. If you did you'd understand the frustration at others wanting to use them for convenience rather than necessity.

And before anyone says “oh, but you don’t know if they are disabled.”
The other toilet I had was also a disabled friendly toilet, but just a standard disabled toilet. It was installed to serve everyone who needed the toilet, disabled or not.
Then I found out that older children and adults couldn’t use the changing table and that hoists were needed etc. I just had never thought about it before. I had one of the studio rooms converted to a changing places toilet. So it was pretty obvious when someone was trying to walk in, that they just couldn’t be bothered waiting for the “everyone” toilet.

I would not have assumed she wasn’t disabled. It’s not like they issue you one the second you reach that threshold or even tell you of their existence if you’re newly disabled. Especially if your disabilities also affect your ability to communicate, research, advocate and secure aids. Which is not all that uncommon. In addition, you can be short term disabled due to surgery, injury or illness and genuinely need a disabled loo but not eligible for a radar key.

I think you were rude. I would have said oh this is a disabled loo are you quite sure you need it? And left it at that. As it is you jumped to the worst conclusion and seemed to even get a kick out of being a righteous arse.

I think some posters have completely missed that this is not a standard disabled toilet. It is a changing places toilet containing tens of thousands of pounds worth of equipment.

You did the right thing!

I am slightly on the fence. Yes if she had no issues and could wait, she should have done.

But I've been in a couple of situations where I've needed to use a disabled loo without a key. First time was when I'd taken my dad out who is disabled and we'd left his radar key in the other bag in the car. I did go back to get it but he needed the loo first and couldn't wait. I did explain to the people exiting the toilet and tbf, my Dad was in a wheelchair so it was pretty obvious. The other time it was me and I was waiting for an urgent hysterectomy and bleeding through clothes hourly. I had to go out and had tripled up protection but it failed within 25 minutes. The ladies' toilet was occupied, the men's out of use temporarily and I was desperate with clots sliding down my legs. I felt wretched but really didn't know what else to do.

I kind of agree.

Whilst I understand the very valid point the OP is making no one knows what that lady is going through and maybe she was in desperate need of a toilet at that time

I probably would have let her use it.

X

I would have let them in. I am not disabled (well I have arthritis and find it difficult to stand for too long) but sometimes I am desperate for a wee, as are other people- if there is a toilet available, I would use it, and would let others use it too.
I would not act as the toilet police.

@BatchCookBabe
Yes, I had similar at a London tube station when using the lifts as I am disabled although they’re invisible disabilities at first glance. A man in a wheel chair was absolutely raging at the top of the lift calling us all names. But we genuinely were a bunch of people who could not do the multiple escalators. Prosthetic legs, vertigo, chronic fatigue, arthritis…etc etc

yes, which is why I said it was more reasonable to not give her the door.

I think it's different for Changing Places facilities as they're really quite specialist and for the truly disabled.They shouldn't be open to every Tom, Dick and Harry and the abuse that the other facilities get.

Unfortunately if they're the only accessible loos there's not much you can do. Fwiw, I think you were in the right. If the woman really needed to use it they should have their own Radar key.

What is your point? Is there some lucrative black market in toilet equipment such that there is high risk you’re allowing in a thief and you’d end up an accessory?

Changing places toilets cost an absolute fortune. Do people not realise this? They’re not even really for every disabled person - it’s not a standard disabled toilet.

You can check online for your nearest changing places toilet, and there are very few of them. Almost everywhere has a disabled toilet though. They are not the same thing.

That woman did not need to use a changing places toilet. She could wait for a disabled toilet or the woman’s toilets.

Changing places have issues with their hoists being ripped out and the adult sized changing tables being ripped off walls. To stop that happening, they are only to be used by people who require those things. Not just anyone who fancies using that loo.