Lucy Letby

[kkloo]

New thread as the last one has filled up.

I cannot tell you why Lucy Letby made her facebook searches when she did. Do I think it was weird? No I don’t. I think it is very difficult for anyone who hasn’t worked in a caring profession to understand how deeply you can be affected by loss and death of people you care about and have become close to. As well as working as a healthcare professional, after my retirement I worked as a carer for clients with dementia and their families. I was deeply affected when a client died. It’s one of the reasons I gave it up because I needed to focus on my own and my family’s health. Facebook wasn’t around then and I am not on it now. Sorry if you think I am weird but I think if I had had the opportunity to just know those families were doing okay after the traumas they had experienced, I think I might just have taken a look. Then I might have been able to sleep better at night.

I've been willing to say she may not be guolty. What I dont like is this insistence that her behaviour is just like that of anyonecelse. And that there must be somethingvespecially sick about mevfor pointing that out.

I don’t really see what’s drastically different myself either, sorry. I do think (and have said so) the only thing I do find a bit strange is the handover notes. I do accept her taking them home with her but I do find it a bit weird they were still in her house in bags. But then god knows what is in my house.

There's no NEED. But people look people up on Facebook all the time. Could be constructive - I'll find out if there are siblings / grandparents in the picture before I chat with these bereaved parents. Could be anxious - what are they saying about the hospital and the child's treatment. Could be strategic - I want to be sure I recognize the parents when they visit the unit so I'll check their photos. Could be nosy - I wonder if they have any baby photos up, how the other baby is doing. Could be habit - I'm bored, who will I look up on Facebook. Could be any combination.

I don't think it's suspicious, no. Not when these searches were in among thousands of other searches. What should I suspect in the other thousands of searches?

I think she has one genuine oddity (the handover notes), though some HCPs have suggested even these numbers are unusual. I think she had one common foible (social media addiction).

I hope you'll believe me when I say I genuinely don't find that enough to describe someone as weird. You do, but I don't. I have a large extended family, I've worked with very large employers, and I grew up in the kind of community where everyone is in everyone's business. I know many many people who are mildly quirky in various ways. I might categorize Lucy Letby that way. But not as weird or sinister, for me, honestly.

She was searching for babies families she wasn't even designated nurse for. She wasn't meant to be looking after baby C-she was put elsewhere (and not happy about it) then after he died which she was present for despite having no reason to be in that room she then facebooked his family. People keep saying they do the exact same thing and missing out entire bits of context. The families weren't doing okay the day their babies died-that's the point. They're also most likely not doing okay on the one year anniversary-they're probably going to put up a devastating msg about how it's been a year without their precious baby. That's what she wanted to see.

She swapped with Sophie Ellis to look after Child C as the resuscitation progressed, though she wasn't initially in charge of him. So I can see why she would look his family up as much as the families of other babies, whatever her motivation.

Christ - the hang ‘em high bunch are a nasty section!! The patience shown has gone above and beyond on these threads but people who cannot and will not take a look at anything new are insulting over and over again - why keep coming back??? The posters that - after seeing the trial, the media circus, the doctors and scientists, the journalists and many other professions - feel something has gone very wrong in the justice system, have shown real restraint

why come and argue and insult?? You aren’t going to change your mind, you just go over and over the same and unimportant points, you aren’t going to change anyone else’s minds. You won’t change what happens in the future for LL but I really hope that everyone else does!

Facebook searches, notes and bags of paper does not make a murderer. Nor does being in your place of work or doing the job you trained for or showing compassion. A whole life taken by ‘murders’ by methods not known before, by insulin tests that shouldn’t be used forensically, long after they were taken and administered by luck and improbability, force of a car crash injury with no outward signs, murders that weren’t seen by pathologists, a judge that directed a jury to convict on all if they thought one case was murder, dr’s that changed their minds on the stand and after she was found guilty….and on and on

this case should make everybody scared with how our justice system works

@fosterma who is insulting anyone? If anything it's the people who think she's guilty getting shut down and the inevitable "hope you never serve on a jury" always comes out at some point as well.

The media circus is what the majority of posters are thriving on in this thread

God the irony and hypocrisy is something else 🤦‍♀️

And that there must be somethingvespecially sick about mevfor pointing that out

Of course not, but that's the thing: people think (and do) things for reasons that others find hard to understand. Just because others don't see why you'd say/do X, they shouldn't be quick to pathologize it. But that goes also for what Letby says/does.

I think it's important that stories like mistresses are shared.

I think most of us would just like to discuss the latest things that come out about the case in a civil way.

The media circus around the trial, not now! Certain parts of the media were given a narrative around this case, which we still see people repeating today

I wouldn't say it's a media circus now - it's in the media but not being led by it

Yes and I agree with that and what happened was absolutely dreadful however what is happening here is this man who by all accounts is an upstanding citizen, contributing to society, doing his job is being constantly attacked and assumptions are being made about his work.

Almost as if he had malicious intent and was financially motivated - I mean really?

@fosterma

When this case went to trial I talked to various friends including nurse friends who didn’t even know about it so I have to disagree there was a circus before and during the trial

I feel there’s been a circus since the trial

My opinion only though

Well he was paid, he had a second career as an expert witness. How is that not financially motivated?

The statistics don't and the experts can't agree amongst themselves (well except at the trial strangely enough) it's like living in the twilight zone where people ignore the fact it was agreed upon these were murders back in court-now it's apparently a fact there were no murders...god you can really see how weak-minded people who know nothing about the case get sucked into this Letby cult.

I wouldn't say people are making assumptions about Dr Evans's work. I would say they are making judgements on his public statements, at the trial and in the media. He has shown through his own words that he is not willing to confine himself to scientific evidence, and he has made many illogical statements.

I don't really care what he is paid or why he wants the job. The labourer is worthy of his hire. But the work he did on this case, as reproduced in transcripts of the trial, is not up to professional or scientific standards. That is what first alerted many people to potential problems with the case: his own words.

I thought you just said you don’t insult people?

If your work can have an effect on a persons life that is pretty much the equivalent of the death penalty, and your work is leaving other experts saying 'what, this is not right' then of course there is going to be criticism.

Dewi really hasn't helped matters by trying to encourage this us versus them mentality going on about conspiracy theorists etc.

Or boasting about never losing a case for the prosecution when his job is as an independent witness to assist the court.

People are unconvinced that there were murders because the medical evidence produced at the trial was so flawed. It was largely illogical, inconsistent, inaccurate, and unevidenced. That is why people are open to hearing from experts with a more scientific approach.

By weak-minded, do you mean able to understand the science? What was presented at court has no basis in medical science; it is all made-up or untested theories.

What Lee et al have published is supported by science.

How many more times do you need this explained to you? Or have you found research papers that support the idea that air down the NG tube can cause sudden collapses? Or that insulin in a TPN bag is a valid and tested form of delivery?

maybe i have picked you up wrong but are you honestly saying you believe a word of what Dewi has said ? i would be stunned if someone is that daft.

He is a charlatan.