Lucy Letby

[kkloo]

New thread as the last one has filled up.

The whole thing is horrific

I'd think that's one thing everyone can agree on. Of course the maternity notes will be relevant.

Innocent - who knows? Guilty beyond reasonable doubt? That's the question.

Just popped back to say Dr Phil Hammond, writing as MD, wrote 39 articles about this case in Private Eye magazine. I found them through Substack but think they are on PE's website. They're well worth a read.

He's not a fan of Dr Evans.

Didn't she basically admit it all in her diaries without saying explicitly "I murdered them"? More "I have done horrific things" etc etc
I dunno, I think she is guilty.

She is a scapegoat and anyone that worked with clinical negligence knows fully well nurses often get the brunt of the guilt to protect those “above them “ .

2 things that struck me from the File on 4.

1. There was another case of a mother who was not given ABs when her waters broke early and she and the baby developed infection. This is exactly what happened in the case of Baby D.
2. The decision to refuse the defence’s access to obstetric notes on the basis that the prosecution wasn’t using them thus they weren’t relevant is bizarre.

Her counsellor told her to do that I think?

This lady had an unfair trial and her conviction is questionable- a retrial should exonerate her.

She’s 36 and a half, I just keep thinking she’s going to lose the chance to give birth to her own children if something doesn’t happen really really soon. I don’t know why that bothers me more than her incarceration though.

Scapegoat of NHS. No doubt.
I am so happy I have quitted NHS as a workplace. It's a mess.

She's in prison for the worst crimes imaginable, I really don't give a crap about her fertility. A lot of creepy old men seem to be VERY focused on this and it's quite odd tbh. Did people say this about Beverley Allitt?

I don't think people were as troubled about Beverley Allitt's case. Police had access to blood samples for testing. I haven't heard any suggestion that expert witnesses for her prosecution kept changing their minds or contradicting themselves. I've never heard on dozens of experts coming forward to say the science was wrong.

Obviously any woman wrongly imprisoned has this extra time bomb to cope with. But who knows whether it's a major concern for her or not.

I'd find it devastating not to be around for my aging parents, if I were in her situation. Even if I was guilty I suppose. Wouldn't it have been better for everyone if these notes had been looked at properly first time around, whether we think she is innocent or guilty.

She's in prison for the worst crimes imaginable

Yes. And isn’t it better if the jury heard all the evidence rather than bits of it? If you knew someone in jail wouldn’t you like to know the jury heard everything and then made their decision? Are you happy with the amount of stuff that was withheld? Why? What do you think about Andrew Malkinson? He was also in prison for one of the worst crimes imaginable. Do you think that’s okay, or do you think people were correct to say ‘let’s look at the dna’?

A lot of creepy old men seem to be VERY focused on this and it's quite odd tbh

I’ve not heard anyone say this previously, but I don’t generally follow Lucy Letby threads. I just happened to hear File on 4 last night and so was reading this thread out of more interest than usual. I’m not an old man though.

Did people say this about Beverley Allitt?

Say what? That it is a shame if she is eventually found innocent that it’ll be too late fertility wise? I haven’t heard anyone express any issues with her guilty verdict. Were there any issues that I should read about?

Her counsellor told her to write out her deepest fears as a kind of homework. Whilst the crisis on the unit was happening.

She wrote things like "they think I killed them "...the journal wasn't a confession in any way ..it was deep dark fears written down

International medical experts have said she is prison for the deaths of babies via mechanism that no-one believes possible like the injecting air or insulin

Read the New Yorker article about the case. The unit was literally running with excrement down walls, taking babies too sick for them to care for via sheer hubris and more

There were many more 'unexpected' deaths they literally chose ones they could triangulate with LL. It has since transpired they didn't even have conclusive evidence of who was on the unit.

The whole thing screams miscarriage of justice

The first expert they (the police) consulted didn't find 'murders' so they shopped around for someone who said the baby deaths were and he spoke scientific nonsense at trial (since rejected and disclaimed by all the top Neonatal World experts) and this 'expert' changed his evidence in the witness box about cause of death when caught out.

It's just horrific.

Those of you thinking she’s innocent, go back and look at the trial evidence, particularly the cross examination and the police interviews. The constant self-serving and lying from Lucy Letby really is something else and played a big part in convicting her. Can remember everything that helps her case. Claims to have forgotten anything that doesn’t. For example, “oh yes I remember giving X baby a feed at 11.32 am rather than 12 like the witness says” versus “I have no recollection of X baby’s collapse”. It’s quite striking. She’s a murderer and a liar and there’s mums out there defending her and wanting her to have her own kids. There’s a reason two juries convicted her and the appeal courts threw out her case. Long may her imprisonment continue.

The difference is more that she remembered general things like how procedures worked and couldn't remember specific things like what she did with specific babies. Even the police comment that that is the difference, in the Netflix documentary.

When she was commenting on specific times for specific events, she was normally working from the medical records.

The same applies to the other doctors and nurses giving evidence. For specifics, they were talking through their notes and often mentioned that they had no independent recall.

No there are many instances where she remembers very specific details that suit her but claims to not remember an actual baby collapsing when in the same room. She’s guilty.

She remembered procedural things like how to prepare IV lines, actions she carried out day after day for years. I'd be more worried if she didn't remember these things.

I remember the medication and doses for patients I cared for over 5 years ago. I can remember the timings for Wella perm lotion, even though I haven't used it for over a decade. If you ask me what I had for lunch yesterday, I'd have to think before I answered, and if you asked me where I was at midnight on x day 5 years ago, I wouldn't even be able to guess.

Does it not concern you at all that the chief medical witness assumed without even reading the notes that a 2 day old baby born by a difficult Caesarian was murdered rather than suffered complications from that difficult and dangerous birth?

Don’t you think if the medical/birth notes backed his theory on the baby’s death they would have been released for the defence to read as well?

The doctors now reviewing her case have an alternative evidenced theory on why the baby died. Why was this not put forward for consideration by the jury?

Have you asked yourself why they were not? Who would benefit from hiding that a difficult birth led to the death of a baby 48 hours later?

And were all the other medics who didn't remember such things at the trial murderers too, or only Lucy Letby?

The case stands and falls on the medical data not how much LL can recall from 10 years ago, which will be patchy at best.

2 doctors failed to recall they left a baby behind a screen and forgot about it. It was a nurse who remembered that,

Lol only Lucy Letby. Anyway the important thing is that she is locked up where she belongs. If the Colin Norris case is anything to go by, it will be at least a decade before the CCRC sent anything back to the court of appeal (and that’s a big if) and then another few years until the court actually hears it. And in the Norris case, his appeal was dismissed. Maybe he and Lucy can write to each other. Although he will be out in 12 years.