AIBU to feel uneasy about a teacher carrying in a distressed child

[Cityslickers]

I dropped my DD off at school on Tuesday and a slightly older child (but still infants age) was screaming about going into school. The teacher picked him up / manhandled him in, which made him more distressed and he was flailing his arms and legs about etc. His lunch, bottle and glasses were all on the floor. AIBU in thinking this isn’t normally done? I feel a bit upset still thinking about it.

It seems to be quite common with kids struggling going into school but it just felt uncomfortable to watch.

They are, but ideally they would have received specific training in ways to physically support children to keep them and/or other safe

There was a girl at my daughters school who was waiting for a specialist placement, she kept trying to climb the fence to try to get out of the school onto a busy road - were the teachers supossed to just let her? And another who was quite violent towards other children and needed to be restrained.

As he should if no parents there! Who was supervising the child? Where were the parents?

Difficult start to the day for the teacher too and believe me none of us want to have to do these things! Sometimes it is a necessary, planned intervention. You would be absolutely shocked to see what we deal with in my AP.

P.s if they are restraint trained teachers are absolutely allowed to intervene to move children etc, but it is the last resort for all involved and used if child, other children or staff are in danger.
All those saying it cant be done have absolutely no idea of restraint training and what policies and procedures the school / child may have. That is total confidential information

I would've thought the only reason to pick up someone else's child without permission is if they are in danger.

The way society is going, not even then. Probably better to let them be injured or killed than risk offending the sensibilities of their parent or a passing stranger.

You don't know the circumstances or previous interventions to support the the child going to school.

Funny how so many people these days are good at saying how people shouldn’t deal with a situstion but few have sensible alternatives to suggest. Most schools these days do not have ‘spare’ trained staff to wait patiently until a child at mainstream school is ready to go in, most parents need to get to work. A friend’s child was a runner who would climb the fence at primary school, how would the no touch rule work?

Wind your neck in, op. My mum worked in early yesrs and it was mothers like you who made her, and everyone else's jobs really hard.

I work in a school, it all depends on if the parents have given permissions for picking up and restraint. There will be a reason, the child probably was calmed down elsewhere there are inclusion rooms ect. Some kids are allowed to run around the school grounds and waste so much time refusing to go into class.

I work in a school and I did safeguarding training. We ARE allowed to put hands on students if it prevents them from being at risk.

Leaving a child outside alone in this case is putting the child at risk.

How is picking up a crying child, damaging the child?

Spot on, there are always certain staff that have had this training. We have kids that stab others with pencils and all sorts. Do parents want thier children hurt by one of these kids because they think it's cruel to pick them up?! All staff can use 'reasonable force' in an emergency situation. You have to fill in paperwork about 20 pages long though.

Would that be the same as when people left it in cases where SEND children were abused, particularly if they had limited speech so couldn't make themselves heard? And, of course, nobody wanted to believe that teachers would do things like that.

I would ask to speak to the head teacher, keep it low key, and just make sure she's aware that you saw no attempt to engage.

I'm a primary school teacher and sometimes you have to do what you can to get them in and keep them and the other kids safe. The teacher maybe had to quickly leave her class unattended to get him or the teacher next door was keeping a eye while managing her own class. The TA could have been left in charge of the class but is also a one to one with v challenging child and the teacher needs to get back quick or assembly starts in 5 mins and the teacher is leading it etc etc. There is very little time or adult resources and situations need to be dealt with quickly when possible. In an ideal world we could sit, chat and coax them in but that isn't always possible. It is also a stressful situation for the teacher as well as the child. Generally once a child is in, they calm down very quickly and settle into the day. I say this as a teacher and as a parent. No one wants to see a child upset.

Yes I agree with this. This is one of the many reasons why teachers are leaving the profession. Long ago when I started teaching the professional judgement of teachers was trusted and respected by parents. This respect and trust has steadily been eroded in large part due to OFSTED inspections and the belief of some parents that because they have gone through the education system they are as qualified as teachers to make judgements. I am not saying that teachers should be exempt from any sort of scrutiny. I have criticised fellow teachers both in my career and here on MN but we do need a certain amount of trust in teachers professional judgements. How that is restored I don’t know. To @Cityslickers I would say just concentrate on the well being and progress of your own children. This other child is absolutely none of your business. Glad I am retired now.

This has always been a thing at schools. Occasionally a child decides they don’t want to go in so the school have to decide what tactic to take. If they can spare an adult to stay outside with them until they give in to coming in, or if the parent gives in and takes the child home or if one or more members of staff carry/drag the child through the doors.

When I first started fostering my eldest when he was 6 he wasn’t keen on school and I did have to physically hand him to a teacher to be manhandled into the building. Because he would not go in if his own volition. It only took a few times before he learned he was going to have to go into the building and then he stopped and lined up with the rest. He’s finished school now and always went into school fine after that.

My own daughter once decided she didn’t want to go to nursery. She only went two mornings a week and normally was fine going in but one day decided to scream and refuse to go. I handed her to the teacher and left. She never did it again. A friend of mine had a son at another nursery and she found it hard to get him in all year but never forced him in, just sat outside with him until he agreed to go in. Personally I think if she’d just handed him to the teacher he would have been happier about going much earlier.

Don’t be ridiculous! Teachers are acting in the place of a parent during school hours. There are so many reasons it would be entirely appropriate and perfectly acceptable for a teacher to touch a child. Just today, my 5yo got very upset that we were leaving the sports day (she had finished and the next year groups were up next). Her teacher picked her up and gave her a big hug until she was ready to go back and sit with the class. That’s the reaction I’d want from any teacher.

What rubbish

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a819959ed915d74e6233224/Use_of_reasonable_force_advice_Reviewed_July_2015.pdf

You also have no idea what support plan has been put in place by the school and parents.

Realistically, the alternative to the teachers carrying a child refusing to go into school is a parent staying with the child until the child decides to go in of their own volition. The school can't be expected to provide staff to sit with and safeguard the child until they decide to go in.

Several parents on this thread have said that their child's school refused to help when their child wouldn't go it, they wouldn't take the child in but just stared at the parent as they tried desperately to convince the child to go in. This strikes me as quite unsupportive of struggling parents and a teacher quickly carrying the child in might well have been less traumatic for both parent and child.

Parents who disagree with their children being carried in need to be prepared either to take them home or sit with them until they're prepared to go in. They can't expect the school staff to do this for them. In reality, this isn't an option for many parents who are therefore be grateful if the school staff just deal with the situation quickly and sensibly by carrying the child in so they can leave and get on with their day.

I think some people struggle to understand that teachers and nursery workers form an independent bond with children, entirely separate from the parent-child bond. The class dynamic that primary school teachers especially have with "their" children is often quite an amazing thing - it's like a second little family that parents are excluded from, and hearing children talk about their classmates and what they're good at and what they struggle with is often like hearing kids talking about 29 other children who are like siblings in some ways but who don't live in your house and who you don't necessarily know much about. Of course the teachers hug, high five and physically guide the kids (and physically intervene if necessary), it would be much odder if they didn't.

If teachers are acting in the place of a parent during school hours, then presumably you'd have no problem seeing the same thing in the street while a parent did it? You'd say it would be appropriate and acceptable?

With the greatest of respect, you don't know what type of plan has been put in place either. As a parent of a child with SEND, I would be amazed if 'drag him in while screaming and while his glasses and possessions are going everywhere' was part of any official plan.

I worked in an early years place once. I picked up toddlers all the time: to comfort them, to bring them to the bathroom.

OP what are you even on about?

Appropriate and acceptable to pick up a child and carry them somewhere they didn’t want to go? I have done that with all of my children. 🤨 I am their parent and an adult and can understand that they need to do things that they don’t want to sometimes.

Might it be possible that this adult knows more about the child in question than you?

Not sure where the quote went but this was in reply to @Easytoconfuse