DH friends want to discuss me, I want to be there, AIBU (TW)

[Anon8761]

NC.

This may be outting but I don't really care at this stage. It's also late so forgive any typos and I'm sorry if I forget anything and end up drip feeding.

TW: Mentions past sexual assault.

Me and DH married 5 years together 9.
DH has a friend group who meet weekly for food or a particular hobby they all enjoy. DH met most of these friends in school, they've been friends 30 years.

I was out one evening at a social event. I saw one of these friends sat on his own. We were at a bar type place. I text DH and asked if I should invite him to join me and friends. DH said of course, he even said he was happy friend (B) was there as if I became anxious or anything, he'd have my back. Sort of 'B is one of my people.. he'll look after you!' mentality.

I have PTSD. I was spiked and raped at 17 by 2 men. So social situations in bars can be difficult at times.
I'm 33 now, but still struggle quite a bit with flashbacks and things. I've worked immensely hard with EMDR therapy to try and overcome my difficulties. So, with that in mind DH was happy B was there.

I invited B over and almost immediately he said he was surprised to see me there 'because of what happened to me (the rapes)'
I was shocked. I didn't even know he knew.

He then proceeded to tell me the whole 'inner circle knew'. That DH had told them all.
Worse still, he carried on discussing my trauma at the table, at the bar, he wouldn't stop digging.

He even asked if DH satisfied me in bed.
He asked if I enjoyed sex more before my trauma or after. (He was unaware the age I was raped. But regardless. It made me VERY uncomfortable).

The list goes on... And on..
He said 'sorry if this is making you uncomfortable' mid way through but then continued?? So I don't think he was actually sorry.

This was ALL within ear shot of my friends, whom don't know my trauma, because it's private. Ultimately he made my whole evening about the worst time of my life, ever. He made me feel it defined me again, when I've worked tirelessly.. to be me and recover.

I end up leaving the social. A few friends text me to see if I am ok after as said I looked uncomfortable.
I told DH.

DH was angry. Has told his other friends. DH wants to never see B again.
However, other friends in this stupid inner circle now want some sort of meeting with them and DH and B.
To discuss this.. issue. To 'work through it' because it will make life difficult with their meet ups.

DH said to one friend, 'but what if it was your wife? And I'd said this, you wouldn't want a discussion would you?' And he agreed but still is pushing this, 'discussion' 'incase the friendship is salvageable'.

DH still wants to cut B off, but is willing to discuss because his friends keep asking him to.
But I'm so hurt, B attended our wedding etc.. he was supposed to look out for me that night, but instead made me feel unsafe and uncomfortable.

And quite frankly, why are these men planning on sitting around to discuss this? I feel vulnerable enough now. I feel upset enough.

So, I said to DH, if they plan on discussing this, I want to be there. DH said 'but I do have your back on this.' but I've asked DH to instead invite them to our house and I will send DC to my mums, because.. I don't know, I want minimum an apology before I ask B to leave.

DH said his friends are likely worried I will make them uncomfortable. But AIBU? I don't like the idea of them sitting and discussing it, especially B.

Sorry I'm a bit heartbroken.
Thanks.

I don’t think my comments to the OP are scolding? I said was B did was not ok AT ALL and that if she wants to be part of the conversation I think that’s fair enough

I won’t be responding to future posts now.

I'm a rape survivor, I refuse to say victim. The only people who know what I went through are my parents, my late dp, one female friend & one trusted male friend who helped me through the loss of late dp. If my partner had done what your dh has done even though in a way he was trying to do the right thing & then one of his friends had done what I can only describe as a verbal sexual assault it would take me a very long time to try & trust him again if ever. If I found he was still friends with the perpetrator group meeting or not it would be a deal breaker & I would definitely be wanting nothing to do with them ever again.

B is a disgusting pervert who was getting off on details of your rape, the other friends see nothing wrong in what B did, it’s all just lad talk right? They are disgusting as well.
As for your DH he’s the worst of them all, couldn’t find the words to tell them how misogynistic their conversation was? Had to betray your trust in the worst possible way by making your rape a topic for general chit chat. He’s happy to discard B as a friend cause B has dropped your DH in trouble with you, but he wants to keep his other equally disgusting friends.
This is all down to your DH he has let you down in the worst possible way I wouldn’t be able to look at him in the face without remembering what he has done. There would be no way back for me if I were in your position.

What on earth is wrong with your husband? Why would he do that?

I’m sorry all of this happened and I don’t even know what to say. Can you get away from them all for a while and stay somewhere else?

Playing devil's advocate I don't think they are planning on meeting to discuss you or your trauma, but to discuss if they can salvage their relationship (or not) and if DH will presumably accept B's apology and how the group will move forward with whatever the new dynamic ends up being.

It is not enough for the husband to accept B's apology. What would B be apologising for? If it's to the husband it can only be for blabbing about it and landing the DH in it. IF (big if) he were to apologise for his behaviour that night and for the things he said, that's meaningless apologising to the husband. He can only make that apology to the OP which (a) I don't think he would and (b) I doubt - and hope - that the OP wouldn't accept it.

I'm sorry OP but I don't think DH does have your back. Or at least, he only has his version of having your back. He should have told them where to go when they suggested a meeting, not agreed to go, and then cut off the lot of them if they feel preserving the friendship group is more important than any unpleasantness around B being a disgusting perv. It shows their group mentality. And then DH has a lot to do to regain OP's faith. Unfortunately there is no way to rewrite history. Those apes will now always know that OP was raped. But DH should never have anything to do with them ever again. His wife's feelings should come way ahead of those of his 'friends' and if he doesn't make it so I'd be questioning staying in the relationship.

@Anon8761, get your husband to watch this. Several times.

Are there signs B is a rapist, or will rape somebody one day? Yes.
Did B 'psychologically rape' you? Yes. And he did it deliberately.
Should DH make excuses for such a man, because he's a friend? No.
Should the friends group debate the matter? No, they should immediately recognise that B's a dangerously unpleasant man.

B is a predator who undoubtedly would’ve assaulted you had your friends not been there. There’s no way I’d have him in my house ever again - DH either tbh.

I’m so sorry OP, you must be reeling over this

What happens now should be completely your decision OP. Do you actually want this meeting to go ahead? If you don't think tell DH that.

If this damages his friendships then so be it. He was an idiot for sharing that information without your knowledge or consent in the first place and he can live with the consequences of that. Right now he should be completely focused on you and the damage he has dome to his relationship with you. Everything else can wait. And his friends need to accept that.

Also fuck them all for not seeing B as the creepy rapist pervert that he is and not all immediately dumping him. They are all arseholes.

This.

I’m so sorry for what you have been through. None of them (including your DH) have the right to do this. I’m am so shocked.

what your dh has done even though in a way he was trying to do the right thing

I know what you mean. But the right thing is "Stop this now! Rape jokes aren't funny." What he did was to condone rape jokes, except when a rape survivor is within earshot and the survivor is someone he cares about. And that led to him feeling he had to excuse himself by revealing his wife's personal history.

He was so scared of censoring his mates' rape chat, he chose to betray his wife's confidence rather than tell them off for being cunts.

It's a very long way from good enough. The current development only compounds the offence.

This is beyond awful, OP. Your DH should never have shared any of that in the first place. Then B's behaviour is absolutely abhorrent. You're not a curiosity or specimen to be questioned! As for 'discussing' the aftermath of this, I don't think you should be meeting them and certainly not in your house. I think it will only further upset you, to put it mildly, and you will then have to deal with working through that experience. Never let B darken your doorstep again, either. I would hope your DH has the fortitude to dump him, 'meeting' or no. It says volumes about his 'friends' that they don't want to do that!

It just seems to me that your husband could’ve chosen MANY MANY MANY DIFFERENT WORDS to say to his pals in your defense instead of a play-by-play of your sexual assault.

I was a r*pe victim at 16 so I absolutely know the 1000 stone bag of trauma you carry with you - no matter how far you get away from the “incident.”

I’d be in a RAGE if my husband told his friends such an incredibly private matter that WAS NOT his business to tell.

THIS IS !!ALL!! ON YOUR HUSBAND.
HAD HE NOT GABBED, THIS INCIDENT WITH THIS DUDE AT THE BAR WOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED.

That’s the first thing I’d bring up at this stupid little get together to discuss you and YOUR TRAUMA.
Christ almighty they sound like they’re either little old ladies or middle school girls.

I’m sending love to you, @Anon8761 ❤️

Your husband does not have your back.

Who else will he tell if it benefits him in some way? Your deeply personal experience has become a prop for him to pull out whenever he needs.

He did it again on the phone. Instead of saying 'The things B discusses are incredibly inappropriate and I won't be around him anymore' he instead said 'Guess what B chose to talk about' thus bringing it up again.

IMO, I'd bet they've talked about it more than once for it to be so fresh in everyone's minds and the first thing that occurs to them.

Your husband is just trying to dig himself out of a hole by now being the Good Guy when he caused all the trouble to begin with.

God, some men suck.

Absolutely agree.

As pp said, your H needs to unequivocally say that he won’t be discussing it further with them@Anon8761- if he insists on going on with this meeting, he’s not on your side.

@Anon8761

I''m so sorry about the initial incident in your life and so sorry it's been 'dragged up' in this manner.

DH said his friends are likely worried I will make them uncomfortable. But AIBU? I don't like the idea of them sitting and discussing it, especially B.

They should be made fucking uncomfortable!! How dare they want to 'discuss' a victim of sexual violence as if they were talking about some minor social 'faux pas' committed by B. What B did is unforgivable and if they can't see that, then they're fucking pigs. The only 'discussion' should be all of them raking B over the coals for his disgusting behaviour and demanding his abject apologies to you for subjecting you to it and to your DH for using information (wrongly) given by him to make you uncomfortable and distressed.

If they aren't mature enough to discuss this with you there, then they shouldn't discuss it at all.

How you decide to deal with your DH is up to you. I don't think it's LTB territory but each of us have to decide that for ourselves. To me it's more that he did a really, really stupid thing thinking he was doing a good thing by 'educating' his friends on sexual assault.

Your post keeps coming back to me, it's made me think. Considering how many of us have been raped, this is crazy, isn't it? In my experience, the 'certain look' is something like disgust, or dissociation at best.

What it's crystallised for me is that this is part of a societal conspiracy of silence. We know it happens - to one in four of us, averaging out the estimates - and we prefer not to acknowledge it, even when we ourselves are raped. We are silently instructed to shut up about it. Millions of women, surviving the unsayable.

Why? The only possible answer must be to protect men, mustn't it? To protect rapists. To protect the rapists' friends, who've noticed rapey characteristics but honour male omerta. To protect masculine pride which, at some level, must include the right to rape without criticism.

OP's experience is a live example of this in action. It's atrocious.

I'm happy to notice this is gradually changing amongst younger men. Not fast enough; it needs a push!

PS Personally, I think they should kick B out of the group. But I've found men are really cowards when it comes to doing things like that. And after all to many of them, you know, it's 'bros before hos'. 🤮

To be fair I think a conversation does need to happen. The men in this friendship group need to realise how extremely out of line Friend B was. They need to realise that men need to hold other men accountable. They need to realise that men who sexually gratify sexual assault are perverts who damage the psychological safety of victims, that they contribute to false ideas that negatively impact the criminal justice system.

I also think men need to realise that if your friend acts like a dick then rightly so the friendship group needs to realise the behaviour you walk past is the behaviour you support. (There is a good saying about this sentiment that I can’t remember).

In my experience, the look is generally one of pity. It's well meant, but incredibly unwelcome.

It's not a conspiracy of silence for me, either, although I'm sure that could be an aspect for many women. It also has nothing to do with protecting men.
It's just that I don't want to expose my past pain and trauma to every person I meet. I'm a reserved person, and my trauma is private - and just as importantly, not relevant to most people.

I'm happy to talk to other women about it face-to-face, if the subject comes up and it's hinted that they have suffered similar, or are well-informed on the topic, but I don't see why people should be expected to want to walk around advertising that they were CSA or rape victims.

People are curious and ghoulish, and I don't want casual acquaintances I interact with on a daily basis to be wondering what exactly my stepfather did to me (for example), and pitying me.

I think you should go. You should state explicitly that he interrogated you about your sexual satisfaction, etc… Even without your trauma this is inappropriate and unacceptable. Tell them that it felt like he was weaponising your trauma to keep you trapped in that conversation.

They should ostracise B from the group for being a nasty perv. Certainly your DH shouldn’t see him again.

There is nothing to be gained by a group discussion - its only purpose can be to find an excuse for keeping B in the group with your DH, essentially ‘bros before hos’. That’s not possible, their friends have to choose. Your DH can make this very clear.

Your DH should never have told them. What’s so hard about telling them to stop telling sick jokes in your home simply because they’re unpleasant? Because telling misogynistic jokes in the home he shares with the woman he loves is disrespectful and disgusting. Or, you know, doing this anywhere.

The bar scenario is weird. You rescued B socially and brought him into your group - was he there alone? Why? Why did you need to consult your DH about this? Yet your Dh views him as being available to help you? You were already with friends.

There’s already a very odd code of male behaviour going on in this group. An understanding of ‘sleazy jokes but not in front of the ladies’ (if given a ‘good enough reason’). Switch from bar shark to chivalrous on command (except he didn’t). Or was he just there incidentally and bored?

He responded by digging into your personal history. Sounds like he was in there with one thing on his mind and no social skills or decency at all.

That gives you a sense of what this group tolerates - of what it really is.

Dont go to the meeting, it will do you no good.

However given the betrayal by your DH (even if well intentioned) there shouldn’t be a meeting. He should be entitled to say that he is cutting B off as he has hurt his wife. They just want to railroad him into getting over it. It’s unforgivable and your DH should have your back here and say no to reconciling with B and let that be the end of it. The others will have to deal with the uncomfortable fall out.

Oh and B is definitely a pervert.

These men want to talk about your being raped and how they get to talk about it, who the fuck cares if they feel uncomfortable? You should invite all their mums and sisters and wives and daughters too and that’s the only way they are allowed to have this conversation.
obviously that’s a terrible idea as it’s about your trauma, but nothing is worse than their veiw they have a right to have this conversation. Dh should take the most vocal one to a bar and loudly ask if the doctor said anything could be done about his micro penis and if his marriage is salvageable after he heard his wife laughing about it with her girlfriends. LOUDLY.

The "friends" want a mediation?

They want you and your husband to shut up and not make them confront their own lack of morality, which, btw, they want you to make them feel better about.

Do not go to any meeting. There shouldn't be one. The friends aren't authorities in your lives. Your husband should be looking very closely at this group and he shouldn't like what he sees.
If B continues to be part of this group then your husband knows he isn't respected and neither are you.

So that everyone is clear on what happened, I would write it all out, exactly what he said, and send it to them and their wives and ask how they can defend this, why they want you to forgive and forget and how they'd feel if it was one of their wives.