DH friends want to discuss me, I want to be there, AIBU (TW)

[Anon8761]

NC.

This may be outting but I don't really care at this stage. It's also late so forgive any typos and I'm sorry if I forget anything and end up drip feeding.

TW: Mentions past sexual assault.

Me and DH married 5 years together 9.
DH has a friend group who meet weekly for food or a particular hobby they all enjoy. DH met most of these friends in school, they've been friends 30 years.

I was out one evening at a social event. I saw one of these friends sat on his own. We were at a bar type place. I text DH and asked if I should invite him to join me and friends. DH said of course, he even said he was happy friend (B) was there as if I became anxious or anything, he'd have my back. Sort of 'B is one of my people.. he'll look after you!' mentality.

I have PTSD. I was spiked and raped at 17 by 2 men. So social situations in bars can be difficult at times.
I'm 33 now, but still struggle quite a bit with flashbacks and things. I've worked immensely hard with EMDR therapy to try and overcome my difficulties. So, with that in mind DH was happy B was there.

I invited B over and almost immediately he said he was surprised to see me there 'because of what happened to me (the rapes)'
I was shocked. I didn't even know he knew.

He then proceeded to tell me the whole 'inner circle knew'. That DH had told them all.
Worse still, he carried on discussing my trauma at the table, at the bar, he wouldn't stop digging.

He even asked if DH satisfied me in bed.
He asked if I enjoyed sex more before my trauma or after. (He was unaware the age I was raped. But regardless. It made me VERY uncomfortable).

The list goes on... And on..
He said 'sorry if this is making you uncomfortable' mid way through but then continued?? So I don't think he was actually sorry.

This was ALL within ear shot of my friends, whom don't know my trauma, because it's private. Ultimately he made my whole evening about the worst time of my life, ever. He made me feel it defined me again, when I've worked tirelessly.. to be me and recover.

I end up leaving the social. A few friends text me to see if I am ok after as said I looked uncomfortable.
I told DH.

DH was angry. Has told his other friends. DH wants to never see B again.
However, other friends in this stupid inner circle now want some sort of meeting with them and DH and B.
To discuss this.. issue. To 'work through it' because it will make life difficult with their meet ups.

DH said to one friend, 'but what if it was your wife? And I'd said this, you wouldn't want a discussion would you?' And he agreed but still is pushing this, 'discussion' 'incase the friendship is salvageable'.

DH still wants to cut B off, but is willing to discuss because his friends keep asking him to.
But I'm so hurt, B attended our wedding etc.. he was supposed to look out for me that night, but instead made me feel unsafe and uncomfortable.

And quite frankly, why are these men planning on sitting around to discuss this? I feel vulnerable enough now. I feel upset enough.

So, I said to DH, if they plan on discussing this, I want to be there. DH said 'but I do have your back on this.' but I've asked DH to instead invite them to our house and I will send DC to my mums, because.. I don't know, I want minimum an apology before I ask B to leave.

DH said his friends are likely worried I will make them uncomfortable. But AIBU? I don't like the idea of them sitting and discussing it, especially B.

Sorry I'm a bit heartbroken.
Thanks.

I can’t believe what I’ve just read. That is an unbelievable thing to propose, tell your husband and his creepy friends to fuck off. And B is beyond the pale, he definitely enjoyed interrogating you. I’d never want to clap eyes on any of them again.

DH needs to tell them that there will be no meeting/intervention, and that he no longer wants to be in the same room as B. If it inconveniences them, they have a clear choice. B or him.

I'm very private and would normally hit the roof about him sharing in the first place. But I do just about get why he did. You're clearly very vulnerable still and he seems to have wanted to ensure that they knew that he meant it when he said no more sleazy jokes.
There are no excuses for B though, who is a full on creep.

OP, your DH has MASSIVELY overstepped boundaries here and now - despite what he says - he doesn’t have your back. I’m so sorry. If you don’t feel strong enough to tackle him yourself could you show him this thread? He needs to tell his “friends” with absolutely zero uncertainty there will be no meeting, with or without you. B is closed. Friendship ends. If any of the others would like to join B they are welcome to do so. End of story.

You don't understand the nature of trauma. I am sure you meant well, but it was a daft thing to say.

Now you are replying to multiple people and cluttering up the thread with your lack of understanding.

Please be thoughtful to the OP and leave it be now.

I am not going to discuss why you’re so completely far off the mark. I believed I read humiliation and shame in the words by the Op and maybe that says more about my own feelings about my own trauma and I have already admitted I might be wrong that the Op feels the same. I was trying to help. I’ll stop cluttering up the thread as requested.

This is horrendous and I am so sorry all of this has happened to you. Like PPs I am also horrified at your husband's behaviour.

I was raped, a long time ago, and I do actually speak about it quite openly now but it took me a long time to get there. If anyone else who knows talked about it as openly as I do, I'd hit the roof. And that's not about shame, it's just about ownership. It's mine to tell, not anyone else's.

I would not be allowing some kind of dickhead summit in my home. I'd be telling my husband that I was appalled at him and if we had even the slightest chance of getting past this he better do as I'm asking, which would be that B never darkens our door again and anyone who supports him can follow him out. All that can be conveyed via text message. No meeting needed, thanks.

Again I am so sorry.

I'm so sorry this happened; it's completely wrong. What you disclose about being raped and/or sexually assaulted and to whom and when should be completely up to you, no one else.

Your DH should not have told his friends without your consent. B should not have mentioned the situation to you in public; even if he believed that you knew that he knew, he should have assumed that the other people you were with did not know and you did not want them to know. Of course, the specific things he actually said to you were unacceptable.

Your husband should cut B off, no discussion, no appeals - the rest of his friends can follow suit or not. If your husband wants to persuade his other friends to ditch B then he can try to explain to them what happened, but it would be much more effective for you to do it if you're willing (don't feel obligated to do it - it can be re-traumatising) AND B should not be there.

I'd be very upset that my husband shared this information in the first place, and that he's considering anything BUT cutting contact with B. If you are still in therapy, this would probably be a good thing to discuss as the whole situation may have stirred up disturbing memories and feelings.

I would insist they come to your house. Then I would stand in front of them and tell the whole lot of them they make you feel like shit. That the whole trauma has been brought to the forefront again because of one man B (although your husband has a lot to answer for) and his totally inappropriate questions. That it is horrific that instead of standing by your husbands wish to have nothing to do with B they want to try and rescue a friendship. I would finish with you all need to go home and think long and hard about how you would feel if your wife/girlfriend/mother/sister or whoever went through what you did and then had to put up with a B speaking to you in the way B did upsetting them as you are upset causing PTSD. Would you really still want to be friends with someone who out someone you lived through that? If so shame on you

then ask them all to leave.

I would expect your my husband to stop being friends with B

I do not believe for one moment that your husband telling them was malicious.
Women often confide very personal things about their husbands with each other. I am not condoning what your husband did, but I don’t think he meant you any harm. I think he thought he was doing the right thing. If there is going to be some sort of meeting and I say if, then you should be there because I could imagine that B could potentially downplay what he said and put a much nicer spin on it.
If you were there you’d be able to put him right.
Be very proud of yourself that you have overcome to a large extent such an awful awful trauma and have been able Your life and have a successful marriage.

Your husband does have your back and you are a team so work through this together and hold your head up very very high

This is completely bizarre.
Yoir DH shouldn’t have told any of them. That’s the first thing surely!! I’d be furious about that.
secobdly DH would be binning off B and everyone would have to just get on with their lives. No meeting (weirdos!!!) and no discussion is required.
end of.

im so angry on your behalf!!!!

As someone who has suffered CSA and later rapes as a teenager, I consider what happened to me to be a deeply private thing. I don't want people looking at me differently, wondering what happened, and imagining narratives, changing their perception of me.

The vulnerability of people knowing is excruciating, and yes – it is humiliating. Very few people want their private, deep pain to be displayed and dissected, especially when it's such a private, 'intimate' (as in, it involves – unwanted – sexual activity) pain.

Part of the humiliation would also be that B took away her choice to share the information or not, and forced the disclosure on her, before asking her prying, inappropriately sexual questions, enjoying her trauma.

Bad analogy, but a woman with incontinence from birth trauma hasn't done anything wrong...but it wouldn't be unreasonable for her to feel humiliated if someone started randomly asking her prying questions about wetting herself, and whether her pelvic floor issues had affected sex, in a bar, in front of friends who didn't know about it.

This, 100%. He hasn't had your back. He can change that by cutting off B, refusing any ridiculous meeting, and making the topic of your trauma off-limits for any mention or discussion, as there's zero need for any of them to talk about it.

Most close friends of mine have shared something about their partners because it has impacted them too. There is a big difference between sharing something in confidence in a respectful way and chatting openly about it or making light of it. On this basis I don't think DH was necessarily wrong to share with his friends. However it seems he certainly made a big mistake with B. It's unbelievably insensitive of him, I actually can't believe anyone would be so thick. Your dh is right to cut him out. If the other friends want to get involved in fixing their friend group then it's up to them, I don't think its anything you should be involved with. That particular discussion is about a massive breach of trust between two friends and how the friends are going to manage. Personally I think you being there will only make it about your history and will ultimately upset you more, and that's the last thing you need now.

No, it probably wasn't malicious. It was thoughtless, I'll judged and betrayed the Op's confidence.

I'm afraid it was just another example of how most men just don't get it. They don't, and can't understand how it feels to be raped, and what it does to you afterwards. And this lot need to be told firmly and unequivocally that it's not their place to discuss it.

I absolutely get that. I was trying to say that she doesn’t need to feel humiliated. As it seemed from her post that she was (although it has been pointed out that she hadn’t used that word). And I was saying that because it’s already happened, and she can’t go back and change it. B is the one who should be ashamed of himself. He is a POS. But she has done so much work, and it doesn’t define her, and I was hoping to help her feel less like a victim again.

eta I also feel like if we could have less shame about it, we could change the way people look at us when they hear about it. Because so many women have experienced it, and it might take the power out of it to be more open and less like its
a dirty secret.

I'm so sorry OP. That was horrible and B is horrible. Actually I think he is a weirdo and if I were the wife of one of the other friends and I knew this about him I would not be comfortable being in his company ever again.

How dreadful for you. Its a funny thing, but after I was raped pretty much every man that found out wanted to have sex with me. It sounds as if something like that is going on here. Your hubby has dreadful friends. What were they doing making the jokes that were so terrible he had to say something in the first place? I think he needs to stick to his guns re not engaging, and if he loses the friendship group, a good thing too
Sadly while you could be present at one meeting. A) remember they will all be talking about you when they are together anyway and b) there is the possibility of it going horribly wrong for you with that kind of prurient interest. Hubby's apology to you should be simply cutting them out of your lives. Never mind the discussion. If you do meet be really clear what you want from. It and be prepared for how you feel if you dont get it.

This. 👆

OP, if you don't already know who Dominique Pelicot is, look him up. None of this is normal.

It's clear that you mean well and that you have your own experience of trauma. But telling someone how they should or shouldn't feel can feel invalidating.

People react to this in different ways, and by extension find different things helpful. For example, I don't personally like the "survivor" terminology. But I understand why some people do.

Another example - I think it absolutely has defined me. I get why people say this as a mantra, but it has shaped my attitudes, my decisions, my opinions, even my career for a while. It makes me think extremely carefully about the conversations I have with my daughters. So I'd say it has absolutely defined who I am.

All this to say that people are different and I don't think it's too helpful to tell people how they should feel.

Is your husband a man or a mouse OP? He should just shut this whole thing down, not consider a meeting to discuss it. He needs to tell the remaining members of his group, that if they think that 'B' should continue to join them, then basically they're saying that his actions were OK. They were NOT!! He needs to say, 'I'm not having any meetings to discuss my relationship with 'B', this man forced my wife to re-live her past trauma, by pushing her to divulge details while in a social gathering, which he clearly enjoyed, and as far as I'm concerned my friendship with him is finished, so if you want to keep him in the group, then I'm out!' If they all apologise and say that the idea of a meeting was a mistake, and they're sorry for even considering trying to fix this, then that's one thing, but if not, then he needs to cut the lot of them off, and show you clearly and unequivocally that he realises what a mistake it was to share YOUR story with the group.

I am so sorry about the rape, and the what this man 'B' (presumably B for BASTARD) has done to you OP, and hope that your husband does the right thing, and apologises sincerely for ever having shared your private history in the first place. Sending a hug your way.

Your husband was clearly hurt by the way the conversation went and rightly so!
People get together and alcohol flows and then some men are just truly stupid and your DH was so sensitive of your trauma and didn't hold back, I'd be careful of any contact going forward.
Drunk isn't an excuse to get away with saying such things about women... Most people who's had a few wouldn't even think of such things.
Sorry you had to go through this .🥰

Feeling exposed or humiliated is entirely normal if someone reveals something private and painful about your past that you didn't want shared, though. It doesn't have any bearing on how she feels about the original trauma – it's still humiliating and exposing.

Additionally, a man (B) essentially retraumatised her by forcing her into discussion about her trauma against her will – non-consensually – disclosing her trauma to a number of her friends who had no clue. He literally did victimise her, to a minor degree. This was only possible because another man (her DH) disclosed it to all his (rape joke making) friends without her permission.

It's a mortifying, horribly exposing experience, even though she's done nothing wrong. Personally, the more I think about it, the more the blame rests on her DH.

Eta: so you want to scold women for feeling ashamed, or being very selective who they disclose to? I don't think that will help.

It seems unlikely that B's behavior came out of 'no where'. It's how he is. A group of men who include him as a friend is not safe or respectful of women.

The rest of them may be exactly the same as B. It certainly sounds like a dodgy group. So many red flags.

I would be asking my DH why he would be want to be part of this group. We can outgrow friendship groups and find new ones.

yes. it is.
B's behaviour was abuse. For his own sexual gratification.
He's a disgusting pig and any apology he gives would be completely insincere and more to placate his friends. I'd refuse any apology. the only way he could apologise is by effing off and never coming near you again.

I think I'd be outing B big time and messaging the Friends' wives /gfs to warn them what a filthy horrible pervert he is. You wouldn't have to say the whole thing, but just that he came up to you in the pub and questioned you about an attack you experienced when you were a teenager, and that his questions were intrusive, shocking and upsetting and that you do not want to be in his company again. Oh.. and if that upsets the male bonding society.. too bad.

I also agree with @PopcornKitten
"They want to stage a f**king intervention to encourage your DH to restore his relationship with B because it’s convenient to them!. Seriously, WTF.
Your DH has made a decision to support you, (after the fall out from his poor decision to overshare your personal business) and they simply want to arrange their boys nights out without any awkwardness."

I wouldn't go to their stupid meeting. You'd have to recount to a group on unsympathetic men the whole story.. when all they care about is saving their friendship group. You don't need to justify yourself to these jokers or even have them in the house.
So sorry that this has happened to you OP.

Well the OP said she had done work to make sure it didn’t define her so that’s who I was talking to.

Personally, I wouldn’t appreciate pages and pages of people saying “how awful” “you poor thing” “you must be devastated”, and I attempted to provide support that I hoped the Op would find value in.