To think that NT children miss out in school inclusion policies.

[empee47]

To think that inclusion policies in primary schools are almost never geared to helping academic, NT children get the best out of their education? They’re almost always designed to help the underdog - not denying this is necessary - but those at the top end of the spectrum don’t get the chance to shine as bright as they might otherwise do.

Well, that’s something that’s easy for parents to do in their own time with their child.

Well it depends on the school doesn't it?
My eldest is in the "gifted and talented" (as it used to be called) programme due to academic achievements but also has significant accomodations due to disability and EHCP

Your question doesn't really make much sense.
What would you expect an inclusion policy to direct at NT children.
And what 'spectrum' are you referring to?

DD is what you would call a 'gifted and talented' child. In her Year 10 mocks she has achieved mainly 9s, a few 8s. She doesn't need an inclusion policy. DS is ASD. He could work tirelessly and still never achieve what DD will. In fact, he does spend longer on homework and she breezes through school life.

You post is ignorant.

Many inclusion strategies ie good teaching or classroom support helps NT children too. Giving an autistic child a 1:1 TA in school helps to stop disruption affecting the rest of the class for example.

But yes some high achieving children are not sufficiently challenged. Parents can do extra with their child at home, or pay for tutoring or private schooling if they are in a position to do so.

It is not a perfect system but schools have legal duties to make reasonable adjustments for disabled children

It makes sense to me that a school's limited resources are targeted at students who are struggling to meet expected grades, whether that's due to disability or any other reason.

My dd has autism, she absolutely needs support socially, but academically she finds her work easy and does well. Realistically, she'd probably achieve even higher grades if more of her learning was presented in a way that's best for her needs, but that clearly isn't the priority in the classroom. It's something we can support her with at home though.

Everyone loses out when inclusion means children who can’t cope in school are forced to be there and low and high level disruption and violence stop the majority of the class from getting the education they’re entitled to. So many teachers say they’re juggling multiple children with very high levels of additional need that they struggle to teach the basics never mind providing extra work or guidance for very academic children.

As the head of my child’s school said when I complained my child hadn’t learned anything for some time, he has to concentrate resources at the weakest children. Which is complete BS. I could have pointed out why what he had said had flew in the face of the education act, but it all seemed a bit beyond him.

We removed our ASD child from the school as they were learning nothing other than how to be a human punchbag and put them in private where they were stretched all the way.

Ironically the people ‘inclusion’ harms most is the high achieving ASD children who simply need a calm classroom atmosphere where they are going to be fully stretched and protected from violent thugs who ought to be educated elsewhere, but aren’t because ‘inclusion’.

When you say they don’t get the ability to “shine as bright” do you mean their previously whopping advantage has been reduced a little bit? So that, oh dear, they don’t seem so streets ahead of those with ND now that a few baby steps have been taken towards beginning to even up the playing field?

I have one NT child (or at least one who’s never had any reasonable adjustments or diagnosis of ND) and one with ND.

I can confirm the NT child (17) has been able to shine incredibly brightly despite some of her peers being allowed slightly better chance of fulfilling their potential too.

But my ND child gets a chance to shine too now, whereas in the past he’d doubtless have been punished for “not paying attention” or “daydreaming”. Or for not being able to learn everything in the same way others do.

That depends on the school.

My local primary has maths, history, art and science clubs which children are only invited to join if they're consistently performing well in those subjects.

They also have other clubs for children who are not.

But your NT child hasn’t been able to shine as brightly as they would had they been in private school where they would have been stretched to the limit of their capabilities. Do you think that’s fair? Don’t you want the state education system to give the best possible education to your higher achieving child?

I can confirm that there is not sufficient resources available to look after all children’s educational needs properly and most schools it seems focus on getting as many children as possible to the required minimum standard which means children already at that standard get neglected , or used as free educators “to consolidate their learning by teaching others “ bollocks

and then they get bored and disruptive

when they should be developing at their natural rate and achieving far more than they are allowed to

You are lucky!

"Programmes designed to give help to kids that need it, aren't being used to give help to kids that don't need it. That's unfair".

You really have a bonkers approach to this.

They have a legal duty to properly stretch gifted and talented children and my child’s state secondary had no interest in this whatsoever. There’s a reason why most PMs went to private school…

We really shouldn’t have to be able to pay £30k a year to get an adequate education for a talented child.

You'd be surprised how many parents complain that their child isn't invited, but their friends are.

Completely ignoring the fact that their child isn't doing consistently well in any of those subjects but their friends are.

What do you think they are missing out on?

My kids are both ND, one has had a formal diagnosis since she was 8-ish. She wasn't given any extra support because she was 'ahead of her peers'.

Support is given to borderline children to push them over the line, either to working at or greater depth. ND doesn't always come into it. And not all children who get extra support etc will be ND.

Inclusion policies are absolutely toxic to the majority, and an obstacle to excellence. My children’s only negative memories of school are due to pupils who simply shouldn’t have been there. It’s
palpably absurd to favour the few at the expense of the many. When is this drivel going to stop? It’s truly surreal to hear how a child has yelled and walloped his way through the day at school, every day, so he can be included. Why don’t we tell the truth, that these inclusive policies are damaging.
WTF is so wrong with going somewhere tailored to your behaviour, instead of putting a fox in with pigeons, your fingers in your ears, and singing lalala, isn’t it lovely!

Ultimately, the gifted/brighter children get their time to shine in education at A levels and degree level. However, good schools should provide extension work, and parents can provide enrichment.

If children with SEN aren't catered for there will be even more than at current who can't access education sufficiently and leave school without the education/skills needed to survive independently, thus being an even bigger cost to the state.

You do know you can have SEN, need extra support, but be perfectly well behaved don't you?

And kids without SEN can often be pretty toxic to those who are a bit different or slower.

It’s one of those things you’re not supposed to say, but I think that every time I see the poster that illustrates "equity" as opposed to "equality". With "equity" the three children are given different size boxes to stand on, so they can all see over the wall - but of course if the tallest was given the same size box as the shortest, he'd have an even better view…

Bright motivated NT children will do well in any half way decent school. There is nothing stopping them shining extremely brightly except themselves.

You sound like you are envious of another child? Or bitter about something?

love from a bright motivated ND adult who would have been much more academically successful with a very small amount of extra support at school (wasn’t available back then).

Are you peeved that your child didn't make it to a top university. If they are truly gifted they should be able to do from state school.

I think a lot of people don't see how different the standards can be between private and state children by 18, they prefer to believe they're all the same as they all have the same qualifications, and therefore they should be equally represented at the best universities, jobs etc. Which is probably for the best as if the public knew how badly we were letting down our most promising students, aka our country's best and brightest hopes for the future, it would be a scandal. But people really hate the idea of some children getting any advantages others don't, so it's a race to the bottom where everyone has the same comprehensive education, everyone sits the same exams, and everyone falls between two narrow poles of mediocrity.

I'm not sure it's NT vs ND though, an awful lot of ND children would benefit from a more rigorous education, which is why we so many do so much better in private school. NT's may be more capable of ignoring disruption and lessons far below their ability. It's academic children vs non-academic children, but we're still stuck in the Victorian age where we idiotically deem 'non-academic' an insult so force these kids to suffer through an entirely unsuitable education, when they'd be far better served by a schooling more tailored to their own talents, which all too often they don't discover until well after they leave, if ever.