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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Trans widow and feel so much pain for her

405 replies

Hotandbithered · Yesterday 16:10

I know this is not actually my grief but DH has a good friend who we have known throughout our marriage, let’s call him Steve.

Steve was married to Jess and had two children.

We spent a lot of time with them over the years. Camping trips, dinners, bbqs, birthdays. Steve was your classic sort of male really. He was quite attractive, funny, polite, well educated and both he and Jess very successful, had a beautiful home.

Anyway getting to the point. Almost out of the blue (to us at least), a few years ago Steve began transitioning. He is not short of money and has had facial surgery multiple times, paid for himself. He is extremely supportive of the trans community and recognises he is lucky he can access this sort of treatment.

Jess stayed with him through this, went to the appointments, talked to their kids about what this meant (primary age) and tried to stick in the marriage. It’s now broken down and they are doing their best to be great co parents to their children.

Jess’ grief is immeasurable. This couple always seemed so in love, so respectful of one another. She says she feels like her husband has died yet she has to experience this new person in his place, like he’s been stolen from her. I too have felt this obviously to a much lesser degree, but its truly life changing to even be affected by it even a little bit.

I should add that I have no strong views on what or who people choose to be but I suppose I am shocked that a person can live a lie for so long and especially put their children through it? DH has tried to be supportive but I think struggles more with Steve’s new interests more than anything, as in they don’t have much to talk about anymore as Steve is consumed by this (I suppose understandably) and his focus on what makes him a woman rather than anything else.

I don’t know what I am asking really. Just feel grief for Jess and for DH and wonder if others have been through similar how they navigated it.

OP posts:
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aliceyyyy2654 · Yesterday 19:47

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I appreciate your view but not every transwoman dresses in drag. I have two trans friends (mtf) and you wouldn’t know if you saw them out in public that they were biological males.

EmeraldShamrock000 · Yesterday 19:49

He husband might as well be dead as the old him is gone. I can’t imagine how she feels. I definitely would not be so supportive attending appointments etc. Maybe he crossed dressed at home.
Living someone else’s lie is horrendous, similarly to partners who come out as gay after decades together. It’s a huge betrayal.

EmeraldShamrock000 · Yesterday 19:50

aliceyyyy2654 · Yesterday 19:47

I appreciate your view but not every transwoman dresses in drag. I have two trans friends (mtf) and you wouldn’t know if you saw them out in public that they were biological males.

You can tell 99% of the time.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · Yesterday 19:50

chickenpotnoodle · Yesterday 17:55

I don't think you're unreasonable for feeling sad for Jess. She's lost the marriage she thought she'd have, and it's understandable that she feels she's grieving. Partners of people who transition often describe it that way, even when they want to be supportive.
Where I'd be careful is saying Steve "lived a lie" or suggesting he deliberately put his children through this. Many trans people spend years suppressing or not fully understanding their feelings because of fear, shame or confusion. That doesn't mean they intended to deceive anyone.
It's also not surprising that Steve is very focused on transitioning at the moment. It's a huge life change and may not always be the centre of his life. Hopefully, as things settle, he'll regain more balance and reconnect over shared interests.
Ultimately, there doesn't have to be a villain here. Steve deserves to live authentically, and Jess is entitled to grieve the loss of the husband and marriage she had. Both things can be true at the same time.

Steve deserves to live authentically

What does this mean? He is male and always will be. It makes no difference to that how he dresses, how long his hair is, what hobbies he takes up, what artificial hormones he might choose to take, what surgery he has. If his transition is not about a fetish he would be well advised to seek therapy to help him work out why he doesn't feel male. His case would be like those unfortunate people who get it into their heads that a body part doesn't really belong to them and they want it removed. If his transition is a fetish (which is far more likely statistically) it's all about being sexually attracted to himself in what he imagines is the form of a woman, which bears about as much relation to the reality of being a woman as a furry does to a real wolf. Neither of these things is in any way authentic. It's essential to good mental health to be able to accept yourself as you really are.

ALovelyPinkUnicorn · Yesterday 19:51

aliceyyyy2654 · Yesterday 19:47

I appreciate your view but not every transwoman dresses in drag. I have two trans friends (mtf) and you wouldn’t know if you saw them out in public that they were biological males.

Sure Jan…

aliceyyyy2654 · Yesterday 19:52

ALovelyPinkUnicorn · Yesterday 19:51

Sure Jan…

Okay, clearly I imagined my very real experience with two very real friends 😂😂 keep to your echo chamber my love

Uricon2 · Yesterday 19:54

I don't frequent the MN Trans boards. I have a deep objection to women's sports and spaces being used by men who have not even fully transitioned and have no intention to. I also think that people (as far as it hurts noone else) should do as they please.

Within that is a recognition that if you marry a man, you have chosen to marry a man and if he then (or conversely a woman, same thing) identifies as the opposite sex, the marriage is null and void. If someone decides not to take that position, it is a personal choice.

Promisingtree · Yesterday 19:55

EmeraldShamrock000 · Yesterday 19:50

You can tell 99% of the time.

And if you can't tell from looking, you can from speech or walking!

CateyeKate · Yesterday 19:55

aliceyyyy2654 · Yesterday 19:47

I appreciate your view but not every transwoman dresses in drag. I have two trans friends (mtf) and you wouldn’t know if you saw them out in public that they were biological males.

There is no mtf, you can not change your sex.

aliceyyyy2654 · Yesterday 19:55

CateyeKate · Yesterday 19:55

There is no mtf, you can not change your sex.

It is used as a description to specify which gender they have changed to and from, simply a term

Papyrophile · Yesterday 19:56

This is not easy, and I feel some sympathy for everyone caught up in this. A family member has in-laws in a similar trans relationship. They were escorted to the altar by two "mothers-in-law" wearing flowing dresses. It wasn't really as odd as you might think. Everyone played their part with dignity, and now it's not the part of the day that is memorable.

aliceyyyy2654 · Yesterday 19:57

Papyrophile · Yesterday 19:56

This is not easy, and I feel some sympathy for everyone caught up in this. A family member has in-laws in a similar trans relationship. They were escorted to the altar by two "mothers-in-law" wearing flowing dresses. It wasn't really as odd as you might think. Everyone played their part with dignity, and now it's not the part of the day that is memorable.

That sounds like a really beautiful respectful environment for the children. Although you will probably get a decent amount of hate here for that view!

shuggles · Yesterday 19:58

@EssexLounger What lie is he living? He's a heterosexual man. He will soon be living a lie (in that he is a woman and that he always was).

That made no sense, and you know that made no sense.

JoyousOpalLemur · Yesterday 19:58

aliceyyyy2654 · Yesterday 19:47

I appreciate your view but not every transwoman dresses in drag. I have two trans friends (mtf) and you wouldn’t know if you saw them out in public that they were biological males.

a) that's irrelevant as they still are male

and

b) that's not true is it?

aliceyyyy2654 · Yesterday 19:59

JoyousOpalLemur · Yesterday 19:58

a) that's irrelevant as they still are male

and

b) that's not true is it?

How can you claim something not to be true about a person you do not know?

Firegoddess · Yesterday 20:01

Hotandbithered · Yesterday 17:08

@AnneLovesGilbert they call her mummy (new name)

This is absolutely heartless.

There is a stunning lack of understanding here of the trauma a father declaring he is a woman can cause, to the children as well as the wife.

I haven’t got through the first page of comments but it’s already clear that these poor kids will have to live in a society that will deny their grief and tell them their Dad has not died.

He has. If he wasn’t any different he wouldn’t have felt the need to ‘transition’, would he? The whole point of ‘transitioning’ is to present yourself as a different person to the world.

They no longer have a father and are being gaslit into calling him a mother.

They are no longer children that he, as their Father, centres and supports but instead they are forced into the position of supporting role for ‘new mummy’ and validating ‘her’.

What a selfish, narcisstic shit he is. - and no matter what trauma the wife is going through, it’s unforgivable that she is making her kids call him ‘Mummy’.

Those poor kids.

I really hope he does not have sons as they have lost their model of what a man is too, that they are evolved to model as they grow.

Poor, poor kids.

Arran2024 · Yesterday 20:02

nbartist · Yesterday 19:40

How do bisexual trans women fit into this supposed dichotomy?

Having their cake AND eating it!

Barney16 · Yesterday 20:02

I'm a widow, and I support the use of the terms trans widow because Steve isn't there anymore. He's a new person. On a practical note as he is still alive Jess should focus on taking him to the cleaners. He has deceived her. She must be devastated. OP you should concentrate on supporting Jess.

thestudio · Yesterday 20:02

StrangeGree · Yesterday 17:16

You don’t know if I’m traumatised. Yet you’re policing me.

sigh. It’s not policing you to point out that you are policing.

totally circular thinking.

JoyousOpalLemur · Yesterday 20:02

There are two types of 'trans women'.

The ones who were put on puberty blockers and are less manly in most areas but are usually about 6 foot 5 (a side effect of puberty blockers for males).

The ones who weren't.

In both cases it's immediately obvious 99.9% of the time that they are male.

ALovelyPinkUnicorn · Yesterday 20:03

aliceyyyy2654 · Yesterday 19:52

Okay, clearly I imagined my very real experience with two very real friends 😂😂 keep to your echo chamber my love

And you to yours.

JoyousOpalLemur · Yesterday 20:04

aliceyyyy2654 · Yesterday 19:59

How can you claim something not to be true about a person you do not know?

I have a friend of mine who can levitate for 12 minutes in one go - she literally is flying.

You don't know her so you can't say that's a lie.

EssexLounger · Yesterday 20:06

nbartist · Yesterday 19:40

How do bisexual trans women fit into this supposed dichotomy?

Bisexual male-to-females are believed to be pseudo-bisexual, as in their bisexuality is due to the fantasy of being seen as a woman by the man they are having sex with.

Pseudo-bisexuality is very much a thing with AGP.

Read the research by Dr Ray Blanchard, it explains everything!

Thatannoyingone · Yesterday 20:08

EssexLounger · Yesterday 19:29

Can't believe people still believe this guff. Read about AGP. He isn't intersex, he is a heterosexual man who has been sold a lie. No one is brave enough to tell these man that they have AGP, because a lot of people are making money out of gullible fools like him.

A man that has always been typically male, had male interests, attracted to women, always masculine. And people still believe that deep down he's actually a woman?

The only times I've heard people more accepting of a trans identity is when they had an extremely effeminate gay male relative, as it seemed to make more sense. (But discussions can be had about transing the gay away).

AGP, has been debunked as complete nonsense pseudo-science...

Here are some ACTUAL up-to-date real scientific studies debunking this myth...
https://www.crossdreamers.com/2020/05/the-autogynephilia-theory-debunked-by.html?m=1

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339738869_Sexual_Behavior_Desire_and_Psychosexual_Experience_in_Gynephilic_and_Androphilic_Trans_Women_A_Cross-Sectional_Multicenter_Study

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343552498_Autogynephilia_A_scientific_review_feminist_analysis_and_alternative_'embodiment_fantasies'_model

For the love of all that is real, people please read you are lacking critical thinking and empathy.

The Autogynephilia Theory Debunked by New German Study

On people who dream about being another gender – on transgender, non-binary, crossdresser, crossdreamer and queer issues

https://www.crossdreamers.com/2020/05/the-autogynephilia-theory-debunked-by.html?m=1

CateyeKate · Yesterday 20:09

aliceyyyy2654 · Yesterday 19:55

It is used as a description to specify which gender they have changed to and from, simply a term

But it's incorrect, MTW (man to woman) is more appropriate, these people can not change their biological sex/dna and this is where the delusion needs to stop.

I'm fine with people identifying whatever they want, as long as it does no harm to others but saying you are the opposite to the one you were born into is plain wrong and harmful, not only to others but to themselves. My niece's ex tells everyone he is now female yet he has fathered 4 children. Now if he wants to dress in the clothes society has seemed more female than male that's up to him but he is still male and he can not change that no matter what he says, what he does (ie surgery) or whatever terminology he so choses. The hard truth is he was born with male DNA and fully working male sexual organs, unless of course his two previous wives had immaculate conceptions.