Trans widow and feel so much pain for her

[Hotandbithered]

I know this is not actually my grief but DH has a good friend who we have known throughout our marriage, let’s call him Steve.

Steve was married to Jess and had two children.

We spent a lot of time with them over the years. Camping trips, dinners, bbqs, birthdays. Steve was your classic sort of male really. He was quite attractive, funny, polite, well educated and both he and Jess very successful, had a beautiful home.

Anyway getting to the point. Almost out of the blue (to us at least), a few years ago Steve began transitioning. He is not short of money and has had facial surgery multiple times, paid for himself. He is extremely supportive of the trans community and recognises he is lucky he can access this sort of treatment.

Jess stayed with him through this, went to the appointments, talked to their kids about what this meant (primary age) and tried to stick in the marriage. It’s now broken down and they are doing their best to be great co parents to their children.

Jess’ grief is immeasurable. This couple always seemed so in love, so respectful of one another. She says she feels like her husband has died yet she has to experience this new person in his place, like he’s been stolen from her. I too have felt this obviously to a much lesser degree, but its truly life changing to even be affected by it even a little bit.

I should add that I have no strong views on what or who people choose to be but I suppose I am shocked that a person can live a lie for so long and especially put their children through it? DH has tried to be supportive but I think struggles more with Steve’s new interests more than anything, as in they don’t have much to talk about anymore as Steve is consumed by this (I suppose understandably) and his focus on what makes him a woman rather than anything else.

I don’t know what I am asking really. Just feel grief for Jess and for DH and wonder if others have been through similar how they navigated it.

Would you prefer that he'd left her for a long term AP?

He has - the long term affair partner is his fantasy version of himself.

Maybe because the husband and father is now claiming he's the opposite sex? 🙄

Yes. As usual, this was thrown into a post telling us we are all meanies and ignoramuses. This is the first mention of it on the thread. Non of you understand science or biology, there isn't just man and woman, what about intersex people? They are more intersex people than trans.

I don't know why we're supposed to find this a compelling reason to accept that anybody can identify as the opposite sex and must be accepted as such without demur. It appears to mean 'Unlike all the other mammals, homo sapiens has more than two sexes! The only reason the Nobel Prize hasn't been awarded to recognise this astonishing discovery is because the Nobel Committee are all bigots and they have taken money from fundamentalist Christians and right-wingers to suppress it! You ignorant boomers who haven't studied science since you were in elementary school [sic] won't know any of this. You don't even know what chromosomes you have, do you, admit it! You could easily be a man even if you have been a pregnant and birthing person.' etc etc.

You don't even know what chromosomes you have, do you, admit it!
But I do know what chromosomes I have, I looked at them many times. I've also been completely sequenced but I've never looked at my own sequence myself. It was apart of a study that wasn't mine.

Considering studies show that women can accurately detect sex 96% of the time, and male tells such as gait, voice, height, male jawbone, adams apple, limb length and hand and feet size etc etc are not affected by hormones or surgery, I can promise you that we'd be able to tell. Almost none pass in real life. The voice and gait and male jaw at least always gives it away.

I don't have any problem with the term trans widow.

When the husband is dead, you can mourn.

When the husband is simply no longer the person you married, that person is "dead" to the world even though there is still a body walking around.

There is also rejection involved which isn't in the case of widowhood unless it happened as a result of suicide.

And the children to cope with too, whose father will no longer acknowledge being a male so cannot be a father. And has disfigured himself to suit his own fantasy, no matter how that might impact them.

I actually think that "death" of the husbands previous persona, without the right to grieve and in those circumstances can be a lot worse than a husband dying and being able to openly grieve his death and mark his passing.

@Thatannoyingone

Intersex people are not intersex though. Every intersex person is male or female. They are either males with a disorder of the male sex or females with a disorder of the female sex. Sex is one of nature’s true binaries.

All of this is irrelevant to men like Steve who are do not have a disorder of sex development. Steve in unambiguously a male, regardless of how he chooses to dress or present.

And then there is their behaviour. You don’t even need to see posters to feel the male entitlement certain posters radiate.

Exactly. Jewish and/or gay. Dr Marcus Hirschfield was both. He was a prominent German doctor and campaigner for all sorts of people marginalised for their sexuality and/or gender nonconforming behaviour. His patients included some transvestites (the English translation of the term he used) and he and his staff pioneered some of the surgeries used today (unsuccessfully in the case of Lili Elbe) but the main focus of his long career had been trying to get same-sex attraction accepted as normal and to have it decriminalised for both sexes. He founded the Institute for Sexual Research after WW1. It was sacked and closed by the Nazis and his books were burned. His citizenship was revoked and he spent the rest of his life in France. It's only very recently that campaigners have tried to portray him as a trans rights advocate above everything else.

One of the many infuriating things about the people who come here (probably via Reddit) to lecture us is that they always assume that they are addressing women who are mothers first and foremost, homemakers, credulous, not very bright, certainly not highly educated and holding down responsible jobs.

For god's sake can't we talk about the reason the thread was started instead of rehearsing again and again all these damned trans arguments? Every thread is going the same way at the moment as soon as the word trans is mentioned.

The OP is asking for help how to help her friend.

But even on that basis they should realise we have very good evidence for our sex chromosomes.

No, it has not @Thatannoyingone . And 'crossdreamers' is not a valid source. Here are actual neutral MEDICAL sources that debunk your lies about it being 'debunked'.

PubMed journal: "Autogynephilia: an underappreciated paraphilia"
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22005209/

and American Psychological Association - Autogynephilia: A paraphilic model of gender identity disorder.
https://archive.md/gHv3P#selection-509.0-509.63

OP cannot help her friend without acknowledging the reality behind her ex husbands narcissistic behaviours.

They are incorrect, and it's insanely femphobic and misogynistic to deny medical reality.

My reply to them that debunks their pseudoscience denial of something is recognised. "And 'crossdreamers' is not a valid source. Here are actual neutral MEDICAL sources that debunk your lies about it being 'debunked'.
PubMed journal: "Autogynephilia: an underappreciated paraphilia"
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22005209/
and American Psychological Association - Autogynephilia: A paraphilic model of gender identity disorder.
https://archive.md/gHv3P#selection-509.0-509.63 "

the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex

Thanks. I asked for a definition that doesn’t utilise stereotypes as that doesn’t really help my understanding.

Like that was ever going to happen as soon as the Trans klaxon went off.

Agreed. This is also a man whom OP has been friends with for 20+ years and who she has described in reasonably favourable terms.

So I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and not assume he's a raging fetishistic twat just because the word "trans" is mentioned. Presumably he's a nice enough person to be a good friend for two decades.

An OP asking for help isn't the occasion to get on a soap box and rant about how all trans people are perverts and fetishists.

Dear God.

This person is their Dad and never can be their Mum.

But many of us will struggle with that. I can’t help someone who is going along with her DC calling their father Mum (name). My only response if DH went down this path would be total opposition. He is my DC’s father, not their mother. I would push back very hard on that and would never refer to him as a second mother.

I know, it's funny isn't it? There couldn't possibly be actual scientists on here, with decades of research experience and responsibility for staff, students and research budgets.

He is forcing children who called their father dad and celebrated Father's Day with him, now are forced to call him mummy. It's different because he is expecting his children to see him as a mother. Their whole childhood has been changed and redefined. That's why 'trans' is not a victimless action.

You're not being asked to help Jess. You're being asked to help OP.