To think when the state pension is removed, the social contract is broken?

[JulyJulyNovember]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8e2yp1gg37o

It seems likely that in due course, the universal state pension will be withdrawn. At this point, I don’t see how there will be any incentive for young people to build wealth here.

I don’t think poor pensioners should be homeless, but I don’t think they should be provided for in large, unsuitable council houses or in nursing homes where places cost thousands a week. We are moving to a more individualistic world.

It's not financially viable, that's the problem. There isn't the money to pay state pensions from age 60.

It's unfair and human to feel grumpy that our contributions funded our predecessors to have something we won't get - and even worse to recognise that it'll be even less fair for our children. That doesn't cause the maths to work out differently though.

The problem is the way UK state pensions work by having the working population pay for those already retired, instead of a private fund tied to the individual. It was originally meant to be fair (why should a mother who worked part time to bring up children and then to care for elderly parents - perhaps her elderly in-law too, or disabled siblings etc. get a lower pension than her brother who worked full-time and refused to help with his parents, for example) - there are other countries using the same model, such as Germany, and they have exactly the same problem.

A fair system would use an individual's personal life expectancy, calculated using a life/ health insurance model. This would of course be too expensive to actually implement though.

Life expectancy is also different for people of different ages, let alone family history and ethnicity and lifestyle. If you look at the "having survived to x age, what is life expectancy now?" calculators, life expectancy is quite different and actually shorter for someone who is now 35 or 55 than someone who is now 75.

Hilarious !

I think you’ll find that the more name calling that’s done by certain groups the more you strengthen the resolve of people who are fed up.

Most are past caring with the name calling when you see the state of the country and the deterioration of our towns and cities, way of life and so on.

Zero figs given as they say.

@ilovebrie8 why are you so determined to derail this thread about pensions.

I'm not going to quote you to keep filling the thread with reproduction of your off topic rants, but they are totally off topic. Start a new thread to rant about the beautiful single family houses you incorrectly believe are being purpose built specifically for people without leave to remain.

I’m not I was responding to the agitator.

Apologies I’ll stick to pensions 😃

They still get housed somewhere, still get access to the NHS, apparently they get "spending money" and a mobile phone. It's not as if they cost nothing to the UK.

Of course he is. He daren't risk losing the grey vote. But let's hope that younger people don't vote for Labour next time - as they're being utterly shafted at the moment and are rightfully starting to get angry.

Climate change is only going to exacerbate the issue

as a side note. Housing generation rent when we retire is going to cost the tax payer an obscene amount. It’s no wonder the retirement flat builders have ramped up building and now rent them out as part of their model.
the government would do well to include retirement homes in their social building project to help mitigate that and try and keep that money in house instead of McCarthy stones share holders.

Yes, but we don't have a shortage of "retirement" homes - so pointless building more. If anything, we should be reclassifying them and changing planning permissions so that they can be occupied by anyone. A quick Rightmove search in my major city (and also the city my son used to live in) shows huge numbers of "over 50/55" flats but when you change the filter to exclude them, the numbers on the market drop massively. Rather than build more, perhaps local councils should be buying them to rent out - after all, lots of them are very cheap at the moment due to high supply/low demand.

Where’s the name calling?

They cost buttons. I linked what they get.

Agitator? Now that’s name calling..

Yep. Where I live anything even remotely affordable is 55+.

Privately owned ones.
when generation rent can’t work anymore who will be picking up the housing bill? Tax payers. So that money will be going to share holders.
social housing needs to be a mixture of homes

I think calling younger people “generation rent” is very derogatory given it’s not necessarily their fault!

I'm 48, I started saving in my personal pension in 2001. Even then I was under the assumption that there probably wouldn't be a state pension when I retire, so I started early. That's just the feeling I got even back in the millennium. I've already got enough that I'll be okay if they didn't pay me the state pension, guess I've just always been pessimistic since it's a benefit not a fund.

The "benefits system" used to be called the "social security system" which was a better description.

Now, young people lump it all together.

The pension is NOT a benefit. You could argue that pension credit is, as it's not contributory, but then you could say the same about free child care, as that isn't contributory either.

The state pension isn’t really contributory either though, because you can “contribute” by claiming certain benefits for 35 years if I recall correctly.

OMG. What “benefits”? Family allowance? I don’t have a clue as I have never claimed a benefit except FA.

I didn’t get “free” childcare from the state either.

People who get it are claiming a BENEFIT.

Google tells me that claimants of UC, child benefit, ESA and carers allowance get NI credits towards state pension.

So the SP is not “contributory” in any meaningful way. Just redistributive, like other benefits.

Sounds like we need to stop that then. Why should these workshy wastrels have NI credits when they haven't done a stroke of work ?

Will be some peoples point of view. Sadly not mine as I am dedicated to the downfall of England. Or so I have been told.

I think those 55+ developments have astronomical service fees and are almost impossible to resell.

The original owners die or need to move to actual high needs medical nursing/ dementia care homes and their children or other relatives are stuck with hundreds of pounds per month in service charges on a flat or bungalow with provisions preventing letting it out, so they try to sell and the property then sits unsold on the housing market.

That's why there's a glut - they aren't even appealing to over 55s because of the service charges and restrictions on use (no renting them out, no letting your daughter move in with you following her break up etc).

Addressing that would probably be good for everyone but would require some kind of change in the law probably.

I’m part of it and I’m not that young.
its been a term for as long as I’ve rented (18 odd years now)

There also seems to be a change of service provided as well. So you move in with the promise that they’ll be able to sort extra care as you need it etc. 5 years down the line when you need it, they no longer provide it and your stuck with a property you can’t sell.
partly because of the horror stories etc associated with them.

This infuriates me, we send millions out of this country to help others, and we spend millions on paying for people who have never contributed to this country, yet when looking at reducing spend, pensioners who have paid into the system all their lives are among the first that are meant to accept these cost cutting suggestions. Frankly, fuck that.

They don't sort care. They specifically don't provide care; if you need it, you arrange it yourself.

My parents are in one of these apartments and it's great for them. Enough independence, but somebody there if they're need it. They can also arrange to have meals made for them as well, which they tend to do on a Sunday. They have a cleaner which is funded as part of the service charge, which is ideal.

The whole premise of the apartments is that you don't need nursing care. If you need some general domestic care, you arrange it and pay for it. If it goes beyond the care which you can outsource, you'll have to go elsewhere, as you would if you were in a normal property.

The apartments where my parents are tend to sell quite well. I'm not too worried about theirs as we got it for a relatively low price, so it should also sell on well at a similar price.