To think when the state pension is removed, the social contract is broken?

[JulyJulyNovember]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8e2yp1gg37o

It seems likely that in due course, the universal state pension will be withdrawn. At this point, I don’t see how there will be any incentive for young people to build wealth here.

I don’t think poor pensioners should be homeless, but I don’t think they should be provided for in large, unsuitable council houses or in nursing homes where places cost thousands a week. We are moving to a more individualistic world.

O yes, all 1£2,570. Please could you point me to the location where £12,570 makes me comfortably off?

Especially coming from someone who will live off a £90k pension that someone else worked for and contributed to and will still claim £25k between her and the actual worker, while (as far as I can see) sitting on her arse on the internet moaning about "bog washers".

🤣🤣

I honestly find it hilarious that you assume I’m sat on my arse leeching off DH, posting frenetically on MN, when by the far the most, erm, committed poster on this thread has been you. It’s a tad sexist, don’t you think?

I’ve worked in a professional role at senior leadership level for >30 years, consistently out-earning DH in our pre-DS careers. I now live a very good life, to the extent that £25k a year will barely keep me in spa treatments and Botox, quite honestly. But the thread isn’t about me.

The point I made was that the pension injustice in the UK caused by the huge discrepancies between public and private sector pensions cannot be ignored if and when we remove state pension rights for all but the poorest. It seems to have touched a raw nerve with some, and elicited the classic “race to the bottom” response which basically means “I know the maths doesn’t math, but I’m alright Jack, so piss off”.

Public sector pensions will have to be reformed massively, it’s just a question of when and how far we go.

That child is now probably the subject of a thread on here where posters are advising to send the child to either their grandparents or boarding school. Anything other than actually parent.

I admire you. Don't let them get you down. To me, society couldn't run without people like you so you should be getting the biggest rewards.

I am so sorry you have to get botox and spa treatments to make your life ok. There is nothing worse than a woman who feels that her looks are her worth.

The best looking and happiest couple I know, is an ex taxi driver and his wife who was a cleaner.

They have a great life. Both retired.

If I didn't have the best looking husband on the planet, i would be jealous.

But, their looks don't matter as they adore each other, their children and their friends.

Plus they both are as funny as fook.

Hope you get there one day.

Well, there we are then!

I’m off to book some more polynucleotide injections on DH’s credit card before my ageing face collapses like a saggy ball sack. Vanity, thy name is woman… 😂

Don’t add women in general to your vanity. Most of us get along quite nicely without Botox and spa days.

Off you pop then, dear.

To where?

I certainly don’t think that type of income makes anyone well-off. But a DB pension paying that amount for life (and index-linked, as it presumably is) requires a massive pension pot that is out of the reach of most people.

It requires a pension pot of £230k which is a contribution of £470 a month over 40 years. Obviously that’s a very basic calculation because compound interest makes early contributions count for considerably more.

Hmm, the amount that the AI model I used to calculate it was a bit over £100k north of that @blossomtoes - I asked for index-linked annuities with the flexible drawdown we have in DH’s pension.

Either way, it’s interesting that a pension pot of roughly £300k is viewed as not very much, when the actual median private pension pot in the UK is about £30k. So ten times as much as is actually being saved would be needed for an income that we all agree is modest.

It’s not that much over a 40 year period with monthly contributions of less than £500 which would be comprise both employer and employee contributions. Those figures don’t take compound interest into account. A full working life is more like 45 years which would add a further £28k to it. The figure I got was for a bog standard pension. We all - or at least those of us getting one - know the NHS pension is gold plated so I didn’t attempt to replicate that because it’s not applicable to most of the population.

The average DC pension pot on retirement is a little over £100k, so the amounts spoken of here are VASTLY outwith the reach of your average public sector worker.

The thing is public sector workers just cannot comprehend this disparity so they come out with claptrap like ‘oh but my DB scheme is crap these days’. It may be worse than the deal people 30 years ago got but it HUGELY outflanks current schemes, which is why only the inefficient public sector are still offering them. Cash to splash because it’s the taxpayers cash, not a company reliant on making a profit.

I’m not sure that is realistic over a 40 year period tbh - based on a 40 hour MW salary, if employers pays 10% (say) that would leave the employee paying 20% of salary (and working 40 hours a week) for that entire 40 year period, ie from the age of 20. I don’t think people can realistically afford that, even if younger workers do realise the impact of compound interest. (Wish I had!)

It’s not mainly the ridiculous employer contributions required to fund DB schemes that’s the issue for private companies, it’s the guarantee to pay out a set amount that’s the issue. In DC schemes the risk of market fluctuations are borne by the employee, in DB it’s borne by the employer. That risk is vast and has collapsed many companies. BA is merely a pension scheme liability with a few airplanes attached these days. But yet the government still sucks up that risk. Madness.

On the bright side many local authority pension schemes are in surplus.

https://www.barnett-waddingham.co.uk/comment-insight/blog/surpluses-in-the-lgps-cutting-through-the-noise/

What tax payers? The public sector taxpayers? I must have been lied to for the 43 years my payslip showed tax and NI contributions coming out as well as my pension contributions. Who was getting it all?

In fact, who is getting the tax that shows on my pension every month?

I don't believe I said ALL young people move into shared homes, but a large percentage of them do where I live. It's called "flatting" here and is a rite of passage.

Numerous posters had disagreed with you, and yet you still insist you are right - what does that tell us about you? 🙄

It tells you that you yourself live in a bubble of under privilege 👍

What a very ignorant person you are! Young people here go flatting as standard no matter what their socio-economic background, but then we don't have your ridiculous class system either. Pathetic.

I notice you don't address the fact that several posters have disagreed with you and I've yet to see one agree. You haven't a clue what you are talking about and are a fool and I have far more important things to do than argue with you.

It’s all middle class young professionals here that flat share. Two bed flats in not very nice areas are around £250k. If you’re on £45-50k it’s still out of your league for a good few years sadly. I fail to see how this links to the pensions conversation though.

What income does the public sector workforce bring in to the UK coffers?

The private sector would be fucked without the work of the public sector.

If you can read this, thank a teacher.

So nothing then. Gotcha.

We all pay tax