To think when the state pension is removed, the social contract is broken?

[JulyJulyNovember]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8e2yp1gg37o

It seems likely that in due course, the universal state pension will be withdrawn. At this point, I don’t see how there will be any incentive for young people to build wealth here.

I don’t think poor pensioners should be homeless, but I don’t think they should be provided for in large, unsuitable council houses or in nursing homes where places cost thousands a week. We are moving to a more individualistic world.

Only the state pensions paid to those retiring after 2016. We oldies have a much lower basic pension, way under the personal allowance. Although people have to wait longer, the difference is more than £50 a week and will keep increasing.

It's linked to earnings. The NHS employs a lot of part timers and a lot of unqualified people on low wages, and there are lots of people who've not worked their full life in the NHS. So it's all proportional to number of years worked, hours worked, pay scales, etc.

An "average" qualified nurse who's worked in the NHS for, say, 30 years will be on way more than £10k of pension.

Yet, from tax returns I've done for clients, someone like a healthcare assistant, working part time, maybe earning around the £10k level (in real terms) for 30/40 years, can come out with an NHS pension of around £7k, PLUS the £12k state pension, so actually receives almost twice their income in retirement compared to when they were working. I've seen that exact scenario lots of times! Nice if you can get it!

Then it's an entirely proper pay-off for the shit wages they drew while working. The pension was always dangled as the reward when public servants complained of poor pay: Oooh but think of your pension.

Now they're being seen as somehow privileged. . And I mean you, @Badbadbunny with your "Nice of you can get it".

In April 2025, median weekly earnings for full-time employees in the public
sector were 7% higher than those in the private sector. The gap had been
narrowing before the pandemic but increased again in 2020, partly because
of the private sector’s greater use of furlough (when employees were paid
80% of their usual salary while they were unable to work during lockdowns).
The gap has been narrowing again since 2021 and it has remained at 7% over
the last two years.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8037/CBP-8037.pdf

Not the argument it once was though, is it?

The people I'm talking about weren't only earning £10k because of shit wages, it was because they were part timers working low numbers of part time hours, but at a higher than average hourly rate compared with outside the public sector. So, no, not low paid at all, as these are typically unskilled jobs, not qualified nurses etc., and pay more than comparable unskilled work in say retail or hospitality or basic admin work.

Reading threads like this make me realise that we are our own worst enemy.
If we just accept this then of course a government will come along and remove our pension. We are entitled to a pension and should fight for it. The French had the right idea, we should be rioting on the streets.

The social contract, government and policing by consent and all those things are now only a facade. It was never much of a contract which every UK government has broken in isolated incidents since it's definnition in 1945, since the end of the cold war with the development of consumer/corporate capitalism these incidents have become more frequent to the point that the "contract" is just a facade and what we have is an authoritarian dictatorship that changes figurehead occasionally. The other side of the equation in individuals has been the development of a mean spirited mean minded attitude. This lacks compassion and humanity and denigrates learning and understanding. As a result most only see contribution to society in quantifiable money based terms as the stagnation of wages compared to inflation has grown. This in turn has been fertile ground for the growth of the far right, racism and authoritarian attitudes which will destroy the last vestiges of the "social contract" that our parents, grand parents and great great grand parents fought for and a return to the dog eat dog society that preceded it

We were advised when younger to pay into a private pension at work. If you work for a long time then it's really worth it. It does of course depend upon if a career or working PT here and there, on benefits etc.

We were also told make sure you pay your NIs by working fulltime for a long time and promised the full state pension at 60. If you don't though you can get pension credit, which tops up lack of NIs anyway???

Advised by whom?

My first employer had a fantastic final salary pension, with the catch that you couldn't join it until you were 30 and had additionally been with the company (a financial institution) a certain number of years.

Most employees joined the graduate training schemes or as administrators straight out of uni and stayed five or six years, jumping or being pushed before turning 30 (not specifically to avoid them joining the pension scheme, it was just that kind of very pushy, competitive, work all hours and then go out drinking with colleagues, sleep and work again for 16 hours environments - I never met a woman who had children working there, and the few higher up men who had children had sah wives).

The only advice I remember was being told it was a fantastic pension, and it only dawning on me later that probably only a tiny percentage of employees ever got it.

Yes - I'm only in my mid 50s but when I started working women got the state pension at 60 and nobody had suggested this would ever change. My mother retired on a final salary pension, which she joined automatically without actively doing anything when she started working, at 55 because early retirement was offered (the conditions have also changed now for those in her former profession) and got her state pension in addition from 60.

Sounds like you're in a similar position as me. My Dad advised it and having 2 careers he got 2 private pensions, which could be taken early. My Mum worked PT around us all amd accrued enough NIs for jer own smaller state pension.

Yeah back the day not all employers offered pension schemes and could decide when to allow them, mostly corporate I imagine as in public sector it's been automatically thank goodness!

With hindsight I realise how worthwhile it's been and at times I did think should I opt out for for money at the time. When you're young you don't think of the later future, well I didn't, so am thankful for automatic sheme. Xx

In my first job, in 1978, there was a pension scheme, but you had to work for the charity for five years before your contributions were vested and credited to your account. So I made contributions from my salary but they were merged into the general fund when I left after 18 months to emigrate. I moved to the US and my pension contributions/savings were transferable and cashable, so when I left, my pension savings and the investment income from them became my deposit on my one-bed flat in London.

So the older generation have to work longer & longer, & remain in work, even if its not appropriate for them, for health or other reasons. The younger generation therefore have less vacancies available & end up relying on benefits paid for by the older generation. The 'no work ethic' can set in so easily, plus the MH issues for these young people, many see no future for themselves. (Yes, I know, not all, but many).
And why is everyone scared of mentioning so many coming to the UK - don't work, pay nothing in, but get more help than many who have lived & worked here all their lives, and now certain people are being vilified just for speaking the truth?

and now certain people are being vilified just for speaking the truth?

Who are these people, and what is the truth they speak?

I don’t think poor pensioners should be homeless, but I don’t think they should be provided for in large, unsuitable council houses or in nursing homes where places cost thousands a week.

Oh, really.

Did you know - perhaps this will make you happy - that baby boomers are the fastest growing cohort of the homeless now.

What’s draining the system is paying pensions and benefits to those entering illegally that have never paid in or contributed. Those who’ve worked all their lives and paid in get less help it is all wrong.

People that have worked all heir lives are entitled to their pensions.

Why are we paying for brand new housing for illegals it beggars belief I’d love a house like that but can’t afford it and worked all my life.

It is out of hand and people are fed up is an understatement.

If they have entered illegally they won't get anything.

They are housed in hotels, HMOs, fed, mobile phones , clothes, spending money, access to NHS dentist and doctors. This costs billions, money that could be spent on the NHS, education, roads.
Legal aid paid for them when 3 of them raped a girl on Brighton beach …£60k!
Why are we paying legal aid and for illegal migrants!! It’s mind blowing.
The list goes on and on.
We’ve totally lost the plot.

https://www.google.com/search?q=what+money+do+illegal+immigrants+get+uk&oq=what+money+do+illegal+immigrants+get+uk&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRiPAjIHCAIQIRiPAtIBCTI5MjE5ajBqN6gCCLACAfEFIHq87U-ogR4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

They are being moved out of the hotels into HMO’s and brand new properties.

That is not new and has been happening all over.

The Home Secretary a few days ago announced that they won’t allow migrants to be housed in brand new properties due to the public backlash. It shouldn’t have happened to start with it’s unbelievable what we are doing. Youngsters can’t get a home, housing waiting lists at councils are through the roof.

Nothing to do with the thread though...

Andy Burnham announced that he’s keeping the triple lock on pensions.

We wouldn’t need to be even looking at pensions if we weren’t paying out billions in accommodation for illegal arrivals and then benefits when they don’t work.

Only a very tiny proportion end up being net contributors. These are predominantly low skilled net takers.

Hopefully will be sorted when a new govt comes in that puts Brits first for once.

Funnily enough there was a thread about the rise of xenophobia, homophobia and transphobia on here the other day.

My mother passed at 62 and MIL at 64. Obviously neither got to enjoy retirement of any sort. Also lowering the age would free up more employment opportunities for the younger generations.
But when you have out of touch governments....

They were both very unlucky. You have to base policy on average life expectancy, which is about 83.