AIBU to feel like I don’t fit in with ‘straight’ mums?

[ZiggyStardew]

I’m pregnant with my first baby and I’ve been trying to put myself out there by joining local pregnancy groups and booking antenatal classes because I don’t have any friends who are pregnant or parents.

The problem is I keep coming away feeling like I don’t really belong.

I don’t mean this as a criticism of anyone, and I know people are just excited about their babies, but most of them seem to revolve around very traditional ideas about gender and parenthood. Things like “show me your pink nurseries for your little girlies”, “does anyone have blue decorations for a boy baby shower?”, elaborate gender reveals, “boys are so much easier than girls”, or “your daughter will be fighting the boys off one day”.

None of those things are inherently wrong, but they just make me feel like I’m on a completely different wavelength. I’m bisexual and most of my friends are quite alternative, creative or queer, so I’m much more used to people who don’t think in those terms or make those kinds of assumptions. If I quip back with “or maybe my daughter will like girls when she’s older” I often get funny looks.

I’m starting to worry that I’m being judgmental because this seems to be the majority of people I’m meeting, and I don’t want to write people off unfairly. Equally, I also want to find friends I genuinely click with, especially as I’m about to become a parent.

AIBU for feeling a bit out of place? Or am I expecting too much from these groups and should just accept that pregnancy is one thing we have in common, rather than expecting shared values or outlooks? I just worry my baby won’t have any peers if I keep her away from all this.

Yeah when I had my kids 5-6 years ago the gender stereotyping was unbelievable. There were a lot of shite comments from random passers-by after I had my first baby like “oh a boy! He’s a good sleeper, aye?” (no! He is an awful sleeper). And it pissed me off that we’ve apparently come so far but baby clothes are still divided on online stores like Next and George into “girl” and “boy” with pink/blue overload and women at baby groups were still chatting utter shit about girls/boys. DD looked absolutely adorable in blue btw. 😆 And dinosaurs. Why on Earth the good dinosaurs were in the boy section and the girl section only had silly pink dinos I just don’t know. She also looked cute in pink but I didn’t want to limit her to pink/white, it’s good for babies to see lots of colours afaik.

And the health visitor wouldn’t deal with DH at all so I had to waste hours of my life on HV visits when DH was supposed to be the SAHP and I was supposed to be back at work after 6 weeks (creative industry, US employer). No one in the baby groups would speak to DH either so taking DS to activities meant I had to go.

We felt very forced into gendered roles that we didn’t want. There is so much sexism built into having babies and it really irritated me and made me feel very detached from the whole thing. I was having a hard time bonding with DS anyway and it really didn’t help.

I’m bisexual and if I was in a lesbian couple I definitely wouldn’t have carried the baby or done all the birth stuff but as I don’t have a wife I was the only one that could do it. I hope things have moved on in 5 years but I doubt it because I’m still having to look in the boy and girl sections online for kids clothes instead of them just being labelled “kids”!

And before anyone jumps on me for saying gender roles instead of sex based roles, there is nothing at all about my sex that means I have to be the one to do all the night feeds or take the kid to baby groups myself! There is nothing about DD’s sex that means she can’t wear the green dinosaurs. It’s all a social construct ergo gender roles based on toxic outdated stereotypes.

Sometimes it takes a while to find Mum friends, so keep trying.

But be a little bit careful you aren’t making assumptions and tarring everyone with the same brush.

I’m not creative, alternative or “queer” and I didn’t subscribe to gender reveals/pink and blue nurseries etc etc either. But if I’d been in a baby group and someone told me about their pink nursery I’d have smiled politely so you wouldn’t know any of my views on that.

Choosing pink or blue doesn’t mean they won’t be an excellent parent or that their child won’t be great friends with yours.

You don’t know how your child will turn out either, in 30 years time you might have to listen to one of your own children tell you all about the lovely sparkly pink room they are planning for your grandchild.

I think you have had bad luck with this group. I live a mostly hetero normal world but most of my friends no more adhere to the gender stereotypes compared to my same sex parents.
My daughter was misgendered so frequently as I tended to prefer "boy" clothes. Who doesn't love a digger and some dinosaurs?! Oddly, in the very same clothes my son is misgendered often with comments about how nowadays people don't follow the blue for boys rule.

I do know some people who do the full girls and tutus and pink and they just aren't people I gravitate towards. My daughter has a real mixture of friends, some girly girls, some active girls, some that flip between the two and some boys as well. I'm a squirrels leader and we started with 3 girls to 12 boys just over a year ago but we are now at 7 girls and 8 boys and we are really hopeful that we will keep the girls as they move up through the scouts movement. Our beavers and cubs leaders are really excited by having a greater representation of girls within the scouts group. My daughter is in a football group too and all of the coaches have said her group is their favourite to coach. They say that all the girls are all happy and smiley to be there and engaging with the coaching. On a Facebook post advertising the group that it is just like the boys group only with more giggling and cartwheels. We are so pleased that we have found groups where my daughter and the other girls in the town get to be their true and authentic selves.

My second is still a baby and there are as many boys in the playground that like to some and see the baby as girls. We are yet see what his personality will be and what his interests might be.

My sister hated all this. "Omg I bet you can't wait to put her in ballet, bet your partner is gutted he hasn't got a boy to take to football"...Even just down to what they were saying about whose responsibility parenting was - lots of "well of course he hasn't changd a single nappy" at six months. All that nonsense - she found it quite difficult, just said she had a completely different worldview. She did meet some nice people on a mum & baby app in the end - I can't remember the name! - and found her group eventually, so hopefully you can do the same (or maybe try and find some recommendations for local baby groups from anyone you know with kids, if any of your friend group has them!?)

@FourLittleCars I agree with you in terms of clothes shouldn't be so gendered all the time and no mums shouldn't have to always do the night feeds or deal with the health professionals! Im lucky that the area I live in has a good mix of mums and dad's at baby and toddler groups, but still more women than men. My partner won't take the kids to any groups and I swear it's because he's scared of being the only Dad lol. Most parents I've met have been very chilled and friendly luckily.

Not everyone is going to be close friend. It's ok to meet up with people and be friendly with them for a season of your life to share whatever common stage you're at. Surely you've existing alongside people at work, school, college, uni, clubs etc that you get on ok with but whose outlook on life doesn't align perfectly with yours.
You do come across as very judgemental of people with "traditional ideas" and people are going to sense that and be less inclined to want to make friends. We're all beautiful individual flowers, even those boring straight, traditional thinkers. Your sexuality isn't relevant in this context. Neither is your future child's/teens gender identity or sexuality. There are a million other more interesting topics to talk about. Your post does make me wonder how you'd cope if your child turned out to be more run of the mill and uninteresting in terms of their sexuality, identity, creativity(?) or queerness.

Focus on the oreggie side not the everyojes sexuality side.
Perhaps it will lead to friendships if not maybe once baby arrives and join a group then
Is the any lgbtq groups for new mums?
Its about parenting and bavy not your sexual perference...alrhough im sure some are gay, bi and the rest.

This post is 🤦🏼‍♀️

I don’t know if it’s the earnest mention of the lesbian couple or the ‘sweet but uneducated’ (and thus doing ‘hilarious’ things like dressing a baby girl in pink.)

Pregnant women are as varied as any other group. You'll get on with some and won't get on with others. Keep looking- I am sure you will find your people, but I would caution against thinking "everyone else is like this and I am like that"- the chances are that even within the groups you've been to people have a range of views, it's just some people are more vocal than others.

Maybe try a pregnancy yoga group?

I'm baffled by this... what kind of play groups are you going to? My experience is that you'll see just as many little boys playing with dolls etc. as girls (and as many girls getting over enthusiastic in superhero outfits as boys).

I've very occasionally heard a mum say that their partner wouldn't be happy if he knew their son was pushing a pram or playing tea parties, but the difference between boys and girls is pretty non existent 🤷‍♀️

I wonder if your area and the local demographic affects how soon gender norms become apparent in children? I imagine it's more normal in some places to actively push children towards gendered toys whilst others make it clear that children can play with anything/like any colour without it being an issue.

Is there a rainbow families group in your area? There’s a few near us (found on Facebook) that have been great for my wife & I. They have separate groups for pregnancy/newborns/pre-school so you can meet with other families at same stage as yours.

My advice is to try to just chat to others and not worry about forming deep friendships at this stage. You will find friends who you click with eventually! You may also realise at some point in your parenting journey that the boy/girl stereotypes are actually stereotypes for a reason. Despite my best efforts, my 4 year old DS gravitated straight towards cars, diggers and dinosaurs. My 3 year old DD’s eyes light up at anything sparkly and pink and loves to play babies. I’ve tried really hard to make sure they have a wide range of toys and clothing in different colours and to just follow their lead in what they want to wear and play with but they like what they like so just make sure you don’t push too hard the other way to make them “alternative” as this will be just as damaging.

Don’t think of the pregnancy group as friends. They are colleagues

It depends on where you live, I agree. In my NCT group there were 4 or 5 couples living in more affluent towns and they were very laid back and open-minded. Almost all moved here to the SW from elsewhere, as people do (and we did). There were also two from my more insular town, who were the pink headband and "my little man" in jeans and braces types, but they separated off into a twosome post-birth in a matter of weeks. I think if you grow up somewhere, never move and your friends are all mates from school then you all do simultaneous weddings, baby showers, first birthday parties etc at the same venues with same suppliers. This is definitely true in my Yorkshire home town! All my gay friends moved out years ago to Leeds or Hebden Bridge or Halifax.

As for groups - 8 years later, in the "reason, season and lifetime" theory, all but 2 were "reason" friends and I now have sporadic coffee with one who is probably a season friend. I picked up a new mum friend via nursery and we stand together at the school gate.

You don't feel you fit in. That's okay. Perhaps you don't. You will just need to find a group that you do feel you belong in.

Your baby doesn't need to have peers. Before the age of three your baby is unable to make friendships anyway and doesn't need 'socialising' beyond it's immediate family. Don't panic.

It sounds like you have tied an awful lot of your identity into your views on gender and this is completely influencing your view on others. Instinctively I think this is a mistake as honestly people's view on gender don't have to be the same as yours in order for you to be friends. If you think it does then this seems like an insanely one dimensional friendships.

I have friends that follow all the traditional gender stuff and those that are completely opposed to it. Ultimately who cares if you get on and can bond over other stuff? Funnily enough, I have older kids and out of their friends, the ones that are the least gender conforming often had the parents with the pink nurseries and frills. Unless parents are militant on their views on gender (which I agree is problematic) then it's likely that society and friendship groups will shape the children's views over time far more than what colour clothes they wore as a baby.

I also laugh at the idea that there are alternative parents that all don't conform to gender norms. I'm pretty alternative and I went mad with the pink for my daughter and bought everything in it. You would have hated me! I then had a son pretty seen after and wouldn't buy it all new again on ecological grounds so he had a pink pushchair, pink baby walkers and played with an awful lot of traditional girls toys when he was very young. He also shared her room when he left our room so he was basically immersed in pink. Guess what? He's still football mad and a very typical boy despite having a very feminine start to life.

I honestly wouldn't put too more emphasis on all this stuff. Be open minded and raise your kids how you want to but don't write people off because you think they are somehow more ignorant or less educated on these issues than you. Lots of people simply don't care as much or like traditions. Their views may or may not change over time.

Or "Once you meet lots of small children at play groups you'll see that standard toddler behaviour is described completely differently by some people depending on whether said child is wearing pink or blue." People see what they want to see, noticing what confirms their pre-existing opinions and reinforcing that behaviour. You get "Oh he's so energetic, he's going to grow up big and strong" and "Oh she's so pretty" from some people, from the point when they are literally newborns squinting at the world. Kids grow up with their own personalities and a shit-ton of societal conditioning layered on top.

I agree with this. I have children of both sexes and a have always tried to be as neutral as possible in their activities toys etc. We didnt find out before they were born so they all had a gender neutral nursery/pram/first outfit...
And yet, they couldn't be more stereotypical if they tried! The girls love dance and sparkles and the boys are sports, diggers and dino mad! Despite this, they all say that anyone can do anything and are shocked when their peers say things like "pink is for girls" and "football is for boys".

You will be your baby's strongest influence as they grow, so i wouldn't worry about what the others are doing. And as PP said, you will likely bond a little more once youre in the trenches of night feeds, nappies and PFB worries

This has nothing to do with being straight or bi. I'm straight and wouldn't have anything in common with the women you describe either. I think you have to be lucky to find your tribe. Whilst 'mum friends' are important for a safety net (in terms of pick up emergencies), generally, unless you're lucky, all you have in common is the fact you both have kids and live in roughly the same area.

YABU to expect to find friends in these groups. Babies don't need "peers". They need a loving parent. As they get older, you'll probably spend a lot of time at the park, where they'll naturally start playing with others.

Yes, absolutely. I used to be highly amused by some of the other mothers at a playgroup for pre-schoolers I ran talking about 'boisterous' little boys, when, because they were mostly a year or more younger than the main group of girls, the boys were still mostly at the 'quietly absorbed with cars parallel play' stage while the girls, who all knew one another and were starting school within a few months, were literally running wild, stripping naked and hanging off the village hall curtains or trying to climb out the bathroom window.

Similarly entirely different stranger responses to my DS when he was a baby, depending on whether he was wearing a white or blue babygro or one of the handmedown floral ones I kept at the bottom of the changing bag for 'we've already gone through two full changes of clothes' emergencies.

I didn't do a lot of these groups. They're not essential and often many people feel they don't fit in for different reasons

You just haven’t found the right group that’s all. I hate the pink for girls/baby shower/boys will be boys style of parenting too but found other mum friends with similar attitudes.

One thing I will say though as a mum of older girls now - we never had loads of pink when they were babies, and had all sorts of toys available but they did tend to gravitate towards more stereotypical girl toys, same with clothes,
my eldest especially loved pink and pretty dresses.
Boys and girls do also play a little differently in my experience.
The most important thing is to treat your child as an individual, be careful about negative stereotypes about either sex, don’t restrict what they can play with

I felt a bit like that. In my NCT group, I was married to a man at the time, so the same as others on paper but I wasn’t traditionally into gender colours or anything remotely usual at the time. I seemed to be opposites to everyone else. All of my nct group were all very different from to each other but we gelled in that first year. It’s been 21 years and we are all friends still.

right now it’s about the things you’ve mentioned because there’s nothing to else talk about. That will change. And if they aren’t your people that’s ok too.

This is incredibly surprising to me - is that really how the generation currently having babies think? My youngest is mid teens and I didn't meet anyone who spouted any of those stereotypes during any pf my pregnancies or small child years - I saw a bit of it occasionally in a "mums due" forum and my mil (who had four boys) went a bit temporarily insane with pink and dresses when I was pregnant with my first girl, but aside from that pregnancy and early baby days conversations were generally more - erm - biological! From pregnancy symptoms to graphic birth and post birth stories you never hear until you've given birth yourself, sleep and feeding - the only real gender roles discussions were on division of labour, career versus extending time at home, male (but would have applied to female too if shed never been pregnant) partners attitudes to pregnancy and the neonatal postpartum phase etc.

Are you really hearing this "irl" or just reading it online?

Sadly I think things have gone backwards in this regard.