AIBU to think my parents are ignorant & somewhat racist ???

[ForCyanShaker]

DH and I are both mid 40s. We moved to Dubai nearly 18 years ago for jobs, what was meant to be temporary became permanent, and we’ve built our lives here. We are still British, still expats, but very settled.

Our children were both born in Singapore as we were there for work for a while too. They’re British citizens but have never lived in the UK. We visit 6 or so times a fear. Frequent enough for them to somewhat know England or at least know where DH and I are from/grew up. They’ve done all the sightseeing, London eye, Scotland, Wales, Cotswolds, Cornwall etc they’ve been UK

They attend an international school here which is academically strong and well regarded. It’s also affiliated in various ways with UK private schools and a lot of the teaching staff are British. It follows a fairly rigorous curriculum, and many students go on to UK universities.

But the reality of the school is that it’s very international, as you’d expect. Their friendship group includes children from England, Scotland, America, Barbados, Bermuda, South Africa, Australia, India and many other countries. That’s just their normal.

We recently sent my parents a school class photos because they asked for it. My parents’ reaction really shocked us. They focused entirely on the fact it “doesn’t look English” and that there are “so many non-English children” in the class. My mum said she found it upsetting and that it made her feel sad for my sons.

We’ve also had similar reactions to other things. We sent a photo from my eldest son’s birthday recently around 20 children at a party here. Again, instead of being happy, the comments were about how it must be “just rich international kids” and that this isn’t a normal upbringing, and that we should be coming back to England.

The same narrative keeps coming up: that the children are “barely English anymore”, don’t sound English, don’t understand England properly, and that we’re somehow denying them a “proper British childhood”.
Even the accents get mentioned, they don’t have traditional English accents, more of an ‘international school’ accent despite DH and I having very southern England accents , which apparently is another concern.

What I struggle with is that from our perspective, none of this is negative.
My children are happy, confident, well educated, and very comfortable around people from all backgrounds. They don’t really think in terms of nationality in the way I grew up doing. They just see friends.

They are very well travelled, have lived this international lifestyle all their lives, and are completely at ease in multicultural environments. I actually see that as a strength rather than something missing.

But my parents seem to view it as a loss, like they’ve ended up with grandchildren who are somehow less “British” than they expected, and that this needs correcting by moving back.

They’re also very keen for us to return to the UK permanently, offering to buy us a house in cobham, but we simply don’t want to. I grew up in cobham, I don’t want to live there now. We have a good life here, we feel safe, the children are thriving, and we’re not ready to leave.

I grew up in Surrey and part of me does remember how small and insular things could feel, and I don’t think I want to go back to that for my children.

I feel guilty because I understand they miss us and want us closer, especially as they get older. But I also feel frustrated that everything about our children’s lives here is being framed as “wrong” or “less British”.

First it was ‘when are you two going to have children’ now I don’t think they love our children. They’re not willing to accept them. They’re still young, we can move back to the England and they’ll get an English accent but we don’t want to and also why does it matter. There’s more things my parents have said. Another example that really pissed me off was along the lives of what if one of the boys bring home a girl that isn’t English. Why does it matter??? It’s a disgusting way to view the world.

However, this has given me a certain outlook on multiculturalism, that it needs to also include an understanding of the reasons behind migration.
It’s a long time since I’ve lived in a multicultural area and where I live is 95% white.
So I’m probably behind the times, but I’ve never felt people generally had much insight into the reasons underlying migration and their sheer variety.
This loss my family experienced of language, community, education, social position and the multi generational impact of all this makes me pretty sympathetic to the outlook of OP’s ‘disgusting’ parents. Ie I have first hand experience of the loss of cultural stability and hence can appreciate it’s value, which is what I think they are concerned about.

This is certainly not racism but I’ll wait with interest to see whether my comment gets deleted. 😆

I don't think if OP's children decide to move to the UK as adults they'll have any particular problem fitting in. If they chose to live in pretty much any bigish city here they'll be around people from all over the world, so I doubt their accents will be an issue. These days even children who are born and raised in the UK are sometimes growing up with sort of hybrid accents due to the influence of American and international social media.

Fair enough I don’t disagree.

We shall have to see how they fair into their adult life. I don’t think we’ve done them a disservice but time will tell.

We have many examples within the family so it’s just up to DH and I. We know our children best and want the very best for them. I think if they end up well rounded, respectful, happy with their lives and kind then thats my job done.

Everyone has different experiences in life that shape them. I didn’t have children for them to be local anywhere or for them to British that doesn’t matter to me or DH.

We all only have one citizenship. DHs father was the only one with multiple essentially because he was a diplomat worked for foreign office etc. My children might be diplomats one day, DHs father has done amazing work during his time I would be very proud of my children chose that path. DH and his siblings have never not felt British. His youngest sister never live in England till she was at university and is well settled and establish in England now with English friends, American friends, Australian friends etc with an English husband. She seems to have settled quite well in a country you’d argue she’s not from but somehow everyone around her sees her as English/British. Like I mentioned I think it’s more colour than anything if both of your parents are English. It get a little complicated when you have dual citizenship but we do not so I can’t speak for that. All in all time will tell with my children how they turn out. Every parents wants the best for their children. That’s all.

I really don’t have the crayons to explain this to you. You are, however, proving an excellent example of why it’s really important for people to broaden their horizons beyond Surrey, so thanks for the help in demonstrating my point 🤣

@BoredZelda Isn’t this a double standard?

It is racist to consider a multicultural upbringing inferior to a “British” one.

[…] It’s sad you feel pigeonholed into being one thing when it’s so much better to be many.

I chose a very multicultural/ racial/national life for myself and my family. But there are serious costs and trade-offs to both.

What I don’t think’s defensible is to say: “my preference is superior to yours, and if you disagree you’re a racist”.

Most people, globally, are ‘somewhere people’. The ‘anywhere people’ aren’t morally superior they just have preferences and pay different costs.

This is true. DH is from the North East and I'm from Kent. DC is from Peckham you'd assume...

Despite the bashing, the UK is still a great place. I bash it sometimes myself. But it isn’t the best place in the world, the quality of life has gone downhill. The older generation are still insisting that to be born British you have won the lottery of life etc. They live in the past and are delusional if they think the UK is going to better for your kids than an international upbringing.

I haven’t said my preference is superior. I just don’t think they should be racist towards children my children are friends with. Some of the responses here are redundant.

My parents have actively been racist I have an example within the post and many other examples I didn’t feel the need to post as they’re disgusting views.

That is pure racism not just preference. My mother is asking me what I would do if my son brought home someone not British/English etc what an odd thing to ask. She is already making up scenarios.

You have misunderstood the point of my post completely. Take your ideas off my thread you can post your own thread and have your own notion for racism. I do not tolerate racism, ignorance or bigoted views and I’ll never tolerate them neither will my children if I raise them right.

I think they are being massively unreasonable TBH.They are seeing you 6 times a year! Thats ample time for DC to enjoy Cobham and all it has to offer .plus London,Stonehenge etc .I would just say look guys ,worlds moved on a bit now. and we bring DC over often so they can share British experiences .My friends DC live in Liverpool. and they live SC. its a 5 hour journey .They visit once a year for 2 weeks!Your folks are moaning about nothing!Surely any city /big town in UK would have DC who are not white British anyway

Apols I only added the tag after I posted, but I hope it was clear I wasn’t quoting you as they weren’t your words.

But come on: you can’t have us judge your parents on other things you haven’t told us. They might be total racists. The example you keep giving of an intolerably racist attitude is one that on the face of it seems about culture/nationalities/ties.

And seriously, “get off my thread with your views”? What’s the point of posting if you won’t tolerate other views?

I just don’t think that English reduces to race, or worries about grandchildren not feeling an English connection reduces to racism.

I must have had dozens of convos over the years with expat kids in adulthood who have said they felt something important was lost. As well, often, as much gained. They can’t all be vile racists for feeling that.

I never thought my mum would blatantly refuse to do anything with my DS and insist on only spending time with my DD but here we are!
From friends who were 3rd culture kids growing up, it can be hard to settle as an adult. However all the ones I know are well rounded, and in some ways it's the places they have chosen to work that are small minded, not them that are weird/out there. Maybe preparing them for that would help.
I lived in 3 different continents within 3 years in my 20s/30s and in some ways wished I'd had that upbringing but I do have to concede I find it easier to settle permanently in the UK than some friends who grew up nomadic.
I'm quite low contact with my mum now. Sad to say, you might find this happens.

Because as a non-white person, I learned very early on that I’d never be allowed be English, despite being born and bread in this country. The very fact I had some pigment in my skin meant that I was a foreigner, despite me eating, dressing, speaking and having mannerisms as any white person out there! Even now in my 40s, I can’t bring myself to call myself English- I’m British.

When OPs parents see the children in the photos, they see colour only (and judge accordingly).

I only ever had a grandmother who died early 1960's when I was about 10. I think if anyone REALLY thinks about it, they won't have a lot in common with their grandparents simply because life rolls on and lived experiences change. Even in my lifetime, some of the places that I knew as a child have changed beyond recognition, food has changed...education has changed and of course my grandmother just would not believe the tech! I think its pretty silly to be sad because of the lived experience of people who might have been born 30 or 40 years after you were. I mean have they been doing a Rip Van Winkle?
And I definitely don't think that it excuses being worried because a grandchild might bring home a non white partner.....or have they forgotten all the non white soldiers who fought in the British Army during WW2 Good enough to die with us but not good enough to marry into the family?

Fair enough they do sound more entrenched in their position from your subsequent posts. And I agree there's a lot grating about the vision of England as a utopia. But your thread hasn't just been about their racist views, which I agree are toxic and unacceptable if they won't back down. It was also asking why can't they just be happy that your kids have this lovely life, and you also asked what are the downsides of the life you chose as if you could see only perfection, and from some perspectives there are some downsides, and there are reasons for your parents to be somewhat wistful even though by any measure they have gone too far.

Totally fair enough to decide the downsides are outweighed by the upsides - you only get one life after all, but you have for example already decided on a move back to the UK during their teen years. It wouldn't be everyone's choice to uproot teenagers, especially to a country they've never called home. You slightly come across as if you've painted the international life as its own utopia where DC will learn just adapt to any and all social situations, and you get along very well with dh's family as they don't challenge this view.

I can understand their sense of loss that their grandchildren are growing up in a different culture to them. That's fair enough. I sometimes hate that my sister lives abroad and as time goes on little cultural differences arise. It makes them feel disconnected from the kids. But from what you say especially regarding the photo, it does sound like they are racist too and they want your kids to only associate with white British kids.

but everybody grows up in a different culture from their grandparents.

That's a fair point but distance emphasises it.

no excuse for racism though

Granted DHs father worked in the foreign office, got to travel all over the world for work and I guess that affects his views and how he sees the world. My parents on the other hand are just from Surrey.

But that's the whole point, surely @ForCyanShaker ? You're judging your parents, who simply did not have that experience, and comparing them to someone whose entire professional life was spent abroad and was involved in those different cultures and nationalities. Of course that set of grandparents is going to be much more positive about your lifestyle. They understand it. They connect with you because of the shared lifestyle.

I'm not condoning your parents' racist comments at all, particularly the one about your son bringing a partner of another skin colour home. But you have to recognise that it's not that your in laws are massively better people because they're more understanding of your life choice. Your parents simply don't have the advantage of that experience, and they miss you and feel like they're losing the connection to their grandchildren because of how different their life is.

So yes, challenge the racist comments, but think again about going minimal contact. I think you need to have more empathy and not compare them to the other grandparents, who were so much better prepared for you having this lifestyle.

My parent's life was NOTHING like mine. It didn't affect our connection. My sib's kids and their kids lived abroad, visiting the UK once or twice a year. It didn't affect their connection to our mother either. She died before facetiming was a thing but loved the phonecalls and the infrequent visits. Yes absolutely she missed them but that didn't make her make snotty comments about their education or upbringing.

Actually you’re quite wrong. It isn’t just cities that are multicultural in the UK. I live in a market town in the South East. Berkshire to be more accurate, so not too far from Surrey. My DD’s primary and secondary schools were very multicultural. Extremely so infact. I would post a class photo, but that would be against the rules, so you just have to take my word for it.

We were expats too, but moved back for schooling and because we didn’t really buy in with the whole expat lifestyle. Didn’t have staff, didn’t go out drinking every night, just wanted a normal life with a bit of extra money. It wasn’t for us. Doesn’t mean it isn’t right for you though. I am glad we gave our DD an early upbringing with people from all over the world and she appreciates this too.

I think you need to put a stop to your Parents negativity. They may miss you, but they’re going about it the wrong way. They’re pushing you away instead of making you come closer. They need to realise this. I think a chat when you’re next over explaining how these comments make you all feel?

This. it sounds to me as though they are making no effort to foster links with your kids by being interested in their lives, sharing stories with them and celebrating the difference between their lives.

Maybe so but my children aren’t going to grow up heating racist views. 3 sides to every story but my parents have been blatantly racist that is what my post was mainly about.

Not necessarily about my children’s upbringing. They see them 6 or so times a year. Lots of children who live in the same country as their maternal grandparents don’t even see them that many times.

I am not going to discuss racism with you if you think it should be tolerated. That’s my final response I’m regards to that. We can both have different views.

Just because DHs father was in the foreign office and my parents were not does not mean we should tolerate racism towards my children friends. Racism is never okay and I’m not going to sit here and make excuses for my parents.

My parents are very well travelled, quite wealthy in fact, they live in a Cobham for goodness sake. They have all the resources to be educated and do not need to be racist to children 7 or so decades younger than them. I don’t want to normalise that behaviour and certainly do not want my children hearing such views ever.

Neither am I saying my parents need to be champions against racism but they do not need to be racist or have ignorant through and most importantly they do not need to make up hypothetical scenarios about my children and who they bring home one day based on their race/ethnicity/nationality. I do not care nor does my husband. We want them to be happy and will welcome who they bring home with open arms as long as they’re good people, treat each other well and all around respectful. Why does their skin colour matter!

Just because you miss someone does not mean you need to make snooty racist comments.

I have given an example of my sons friend who is Sri Lankan , born in the uk, both his parents born in uk too, 3 of his grandparents born in the uk too, he speaks with an accent from a special part of south England. My children are not even born in England, haven’t lived in England. Yet my parents make an assumption based on their skin colour. It shows me how small minded they are. I’ve met children more British than my children, they might not be white like my children therefore they’ll have to endure prejudice and assumptions that my children won’t necessarily have to endure.

I will never excuse racism, prejudice, and all in all snooty comments from grown adults especially.