AIBU to think my parents are ignorant & somewhat racist ???

[ForCyanShaker]

DH and I are both mid 40s. We moved to Dubai nearly 18 years ago for jobs, what was meant to be temporary became permanent, and we’ve built our lives here. We are still British, still expats, but very settled.

Our children were both born in Singapore as we were there for work for a while too. They’re British citizens but have never lived in the UK. We visit 6 or so times a fear. Frequent enough for them to somewhat know England or at least know where DH and I are from/grew up. They’ve done all the sightseeing, London eye, Scotland, Wales, Cotswolds, Cornwall etc they’ve been UK

They attend an international school here which is academically strong and well regarded. It’s also affiliated in various ways with UK private schools and a lot of the teaching staff are British. It follows a fairly rigorous curriculum, and many students go on to UK universities.

But the reality of the school is that it’s very international, as you’d expect. Their friendship group includes children from England, Scotland, America, Barbados, Bermuda, South Africa, Australia, India and many other countries. That’s just their normal.

We recently sent my parents a school class photos because they asked for it. My parents’ reaction really shocked us. They focused entirely on the fact it “doesn’t look English” and that there are “so many non-English children” in the class. My mum said she found it upsetting and that it made her feel sad for my sons.

We’ve also had similar reactions to other things. We sent a photo from my eldest son’s birthday recently around 20 children at a party here. Again, instead of being happy, the comments were about how it must be “just rich international kids” and that this isn’t a normal upbringing, and that we should be coming back to England.

The same narrative keeps coming up: that the children are “barely English anymore”, don’t sound English, don’t understand England properly, and that we’re somehow denying them a “proper British childhood”.
Even the accents get mentioned, they don’t have traditional English accents, more of an ‘international school’ accent despite DH and I having very southern England accents , which apparently is another concern.

What I struggle with is that from our perspective, none of this is negative.
My children are happy, confident, well educated, and very comfortable around people from all backgrounds. They don’t really think in terms of nationality in the way I grew up doing. They just see friends.

They are very well travelled, have lived this international lifestyle all their lives, and are completely at ease in multicultural environments. I actually see that as a strength rather than something missing.

But my parents seem to view it as a loss, like they’ve ended up with grandchildren who are somehow less “British” than they expected, and that this needs correcting by moving back.

They’re also very keen for us to return to the UK permanently, offering to buy us a house in cobham, but we simply don’t want to. I grew up in cobham, I don’t want to live there now. We have a good life here, we feel safe, the children are thriving, and we’re not ready to leave.

I grew up in Surrey and part of me does remember how small and insular things could feel, and I don’t think I want to go back to that for my children.

I feel guilty because I understand they miss us and want us closer, especially as they get older. But I also feel frustrated that everything about our children’s lives here is being framed as “wrong” or “less British”.

First it was ‘when are you two going to have children’ now I don’t think they love our children. They’re not willing to accept them. They’re still young, we can move back to the England and they’ll get an English accent but we don’t want to and also why does it matter. There’s more things my parents have said. Another example that really pissed me off was along the lives of what if one of the boys bring home a girl that isn’t English. Why does it matter??? It’s a disgusting way to view the world.

I think several things can be true at once. Your parents have said some indefensible things that need challenging imo. They're hopefully not a lost cause and beyond a discussion about this. The people saying your parents aren't racist because they "just miss you" is worrying though tbh as some of their comments clearly cross a line.

You do however come across as very down on life in the UK, and childhood spent growing up in one place. If you genuinely want to forge greater understanding with your parents you might want to think about what else they are saying, aside from the bigoted stuff, and whether there's any merit in it.

In any case, as PP have said, there are places in the UK where children live lives very similar to yours, at least in terms of the things you've cited as cultural benefits. My dc's classmates in London state primary school span 20-30 different cultural heritages and, unlike a previous poster, my own friendship group is similar. And it also comes with some of the disadvantages of transience mentioned by PPs - a lot of their friends gave moved abroad over the years, though quite a few have returned. But they also had grandparents involved in their upbringing, as well as aunts and uncles and cousins, and this has benefitted them too.

I disagree. She's an expat, which is a type of migrant so she's an expat and a migrant. She's clearly there only for her and her DH's job and not for any overall economic benefit and she doesn't seem to want to take the citizenship.

There's nothing 'racist' about the word expat, by the way. It's just a certain type of migrant.

Sigh, I moved around 3 actual Countries.. And again, what is the “Culture” you speak of? Even an airport will have its own set of rules, customs, norms etc.

Moving around gave me the ability to assimilate pretty much anywhere. I was in London last week and the taxi driver expressed surprise when I said I lived in Scotland, “you haven’t got an accent” and yet people in Scotland are surprised when I mention being brought up in England. Because I have become used to mirroring who I’m with. Whether you are the brickie on a building site or the CEO of an international company, you think I am your people. Far from not having an identity, that is who I am. It’s sad you feel pigeonholed into being one thing when it’s so much better to be many.

My children have only lived in Dubai we have lived in the same house since they were 4 and 2. They were born in Singapore because of work. DH and I moved around a lot before having children but we wanted to be stable for our children. DH himself spent much of his childhood moving around countries and cities it’s how he knows 5 languages, it’s how he can walk into any room and not feel intimidated because he’s had to the bold all his life. He had managed to keep friends for a very long time despite all of this.

All children will develop differently. I do hope my children don’t end up hating us for the life we’ve chose so far they seem happy. The next time we plan to move is so they can sit their exams in the uk and have more university opportunities. For all we know they might not choose uk for university since they’re so comfortable with travelling and want to see new places. My eldest currently wants to move to Australia when he’s older ever since our one month trip to Aus when they were on holiday from school. They’re children who feel comfortable and confident. We haven’t done them a disservice by not bring them up in England. British culture is not the superior culture I want my children to view the world as whole and not have a superior complex. There’s some children in England who have never stepped foot out of England nor experienced other cultures ( I’m not blaming them I understand our privilege) I do however see my children as very open minded. They went to Vietnam, loved it, ate the local food, wanted to learn the language etc the whole time when we went to restaurants they would oblige by the cultural normals and take initiative in wanting to learn, saying hello, thank you, goodbye in Vietnamese. Making an effort to do that. We went to France, their father speaks fluent French and has made the effort to teach them. My youngest son can even walk into a restaurant and order in French to the point where the waiter or asked how long they’ve been learning French because of his pronounciation. They went to Japan same thing abiding by the cultural norms, respecting other cultures, taking time to learn. I don’t want to raise children who think British culture is superior or that other cultures are odd. There were aspects they’d never seen and they were keep to learn. If that means raising my children in an airport then so be it.

We make a conscious effort to raise good children who will be good people, kind, respectful, caring. To top that off they have no other citizenship, they can come back and live in England anytime they want. They’re British citizens.

There’s lots of adults who have grown up to be well rounded people. Rory Stuart he grew up speaking Arabic didn’t he ? His dad was in the foreign office. Similar to my husbands father. He seems quite well rounded and the takes he has on society based on his podcast with Alistair Campbell.

My children are growing up being able to assimilate anywhere in the world despite being brought up in an airport I guess.

There are pros and cons to everything. However I do not think I am doing my children a disservice for their upbringing. They’re aware of how privileged they are I am not raising spoilt children.

The op and her family are mostly living in Dubai. Well-off families living in Cobham will be going to concerts at the O2, plays at the Barbican, visiting world- class museums in London, staying at villas in Tuscany, skiing in the Alps, holidaying in the United States, South Africa, Singapore, and yes Dubai - more recently Japan is a very popular holiday destination (there's a Japanese restaurant in Cobham by the way) - and you posted about a council-run leisure centre.

I would also add that the tricky aspects of this sort of life only come into play when you have a situation where “having a village” is helpful.
for example, international schools don’t always handle kids with SN terribly well and if a family in your sort of situation has a child who is physically disabled or severely autistic or similar it can be very difficult.

@Octavia64 Bold of you to suggest this is any different if OP still lived in the UK. Provision in schools and local authorities for disabled children is woefully inadequate. Indeed, we live 250 miles away from my family and looked in to moving closer to them when my daughter was younger. It would have been a massive undertaking and the variance in services for her even within the same country was wide. Any benefit from having family close would have been wiped out by having to find the right school, NHS service and LA provision. It also would have involved having my husband or I taking a job there first for months and months in order to get things established before we moved. I found my own “village” in the area where I lived, but honestly, even with people willing to help, looking after a disabled child when you have little experience of that is difficult, even when they are part of your family.

I agree with quite a lot of this. Yes I have only moved around one country, apart from a couple of years in the US, but i did spend the first 10 years of my married life living on oil tankers and cargo ships. I have no friends from schools and keep in touch with one college friend by mail. I have seen a fair bit of the world, albeit in short bursts and there is nowhere I'd choose to live rather than the UK but I don't feel rooted where I live now, or rooted in the UK. Its just that practically this is the best choice for me now. My answer to 'where are you from" is always the same. "I was born in XXX" I don't "feel" English in the same way that I don't "feel" female. I have never been anything else, so i don't know how it feels. its like asking me how it "feels" to be a biped species.

i do understand that the OP's parents responses may be based in their life experience and the fact that their daughter is leading a life that they find unimaginable but they do have a choice in how they react and to me, how they are reacting IS racist

I am willing to lose racist grandparents. Our children have DHs parents they have cousins, aunts, uncles etc we do have a community.

They’re not sheltered from their family who live in England. I have made a conscious effort to use the privilege we have to raise respectful children and I not want them to hear these racist, ignorant thoughts from my parents.

If they cannot be happy that their grandchildren are growing up to be so well educated, bold, well rounded and confident in who they are then what’s the point ? My sons can go to a part and walk up to other children no matter what race/ethnicity/nationality etc and play with them and ask their name and make an effort to projected their names correctly. This has been in any country we have visited with them. They make an effort. I think they’re growing up well and it’s a shame my parents can’t see that. They see Britain as this superior country it is not, we all share the same world, we are all humans.

Ok, you know them better than I do but you seem very black and white about things. I thought you were shocked and saddened by their expression of these views, had previously had a good relationship and wanted them to understand you. My Mil was estranged from her DPs for many years because they were racists and disapproved of her marriage. That was the right and only decision but it was also a great sadness to her. She didn't totally give up on trying to make them see reason and later did reconcile with her DM, who was repentant, though not her DF.

Your DC sound great, honestly, and their confidence in different situations also sounds great. Just be careful not to tip into superiority and defensiveness because there is more to diversity of thought and experience than being comfortable speaking to people from different countries.

Not going to disagree with that for a minute.

i spent twenty years in education some of it teaching in a unit for children with physical disabilities and other disabilities who only partially accessed mainstream,

it’s not easy in the U.K.,

it can be a lot harder in an international environment when the fee paying international school either refuses to take or asks the child to leave and the local attitude is either “such kids aren’t entitled to an education” or the education on offer is in a language they don’t know and have never spoken.

I am sad. I care about my parents but I’m simply sick of the comments. I have tried to have a conversation nicely and then they start their whole speeches about no freedom of speech etc I can reason with people like that until they change and realise their ignorance and racism. They make assumptions based on skin colour. My children have Sri Lankan friends who were born in England, their parents born in England yet in a photo of my children with their friends my parents have commented on skin colour. My own children aren’t even born in England they’re simply just white. Some of their friends are not white but some have grown up in England far more British than my children. My children just hold the passport and I simply want to raise children with nuance, common sense, and critical thinking.

I am currently limiting contact but my children are still speaking to them. I am not willing to be close to racists considering I have lived in so many friends and have met so many amazing people who have helped me. If they continue they will eventually lose access to my children. The children I am raising would not one grandparents that make assumptions and comments on the skin colour of their friends. I don’t think they’ll be losing out. We have other community, DHs parents, my cousins, my aunts and uncles, my nieces and nephews who live in England they’re not cut out with Britain but they don’t need ignorant grandparents it simply doesn’t benefit them. If they miss us they can say so! They don’t need to make such comments and hypothetical scenarios of who my children will one day bring home. They can bring anyone home as long as they’d not criminals and they treat eachother well I do not care for race/ethnicity/nationality.

I am not seeing things black and white. I am simply not wanting my children to be around people like that. I don’t want them to think that’s okay. They’re children they’re impressionable if they hear such things they might think it’s okay. I don’t see anything wrong with not wanting that for my children.

@ForCyanShaker - I think most kids get to an age where they can shut the racism out themselves. I have one quasi racist bigoted Reform uncle. My 12 year old is intelligent and way above that uncle intellectually already and just shuts out the Fox News and free speech and racist chat completely. If you educate them properly, they will know better, even if they are in touch with their grandparents. It is probably embarrassing for you, but true tolerance extends to tolerating racists as well.

mmm not sure about your "true tolerance" comment. Should we also tolerate paedophiles, murderers, scammers, thieves, misogynists?

Yes, I’m sure there is a huge variety of circumstances.
For example, if you already live/mix in ethnically mixed society that’s one thing.

As it happens, everyone in my family comes from a background of extreme trauma, which caused their migration . They then moved into traditional British neighbourhoods and it was too much to expect the MH professionals to have any insight into the variety of experiences they had undergone, let alone random individuals they came across. Hence many difficulties with integration.
It seems to me that eg economic migration is a very different and simpler matter.
They came through choice whereas my family wanted to go back to a home that no longer existed.

Maybe ask them what it is about British/ English culture and upbringing right now that they think is so superior because I’m personally really struggling to see why they think it would be so brilliant. This generation of kids are going to have it tough, loads of challenges with tech, division between class, race etc, limited opportunities, huge problems in education to name a few.

I am very sceptical of Dubai and would personally never move there due to the human rights issues etc, but it sounds like you are aware of this. But let’s be realistic your children will be having a much better life there than they would over here and as long as you make them aware of how good they have it and install some empathy then they should be well rounded and benefit from the cultural experiences they have been exposed to.

Thanks. In that case, I think that the trauma background probably has far more to do with the difficulties in integration rather than the differing cultural backgrounds. Personally, I find it a positive thing to speak to people from different backgrounds and to learn from them and perhaps visa versa.

Yes, I do too. 😊

I don't think there are massive disadvantages tbh. It's just a different upbringing, isn't it. It's madness to think that Cobham has some sort of ideal template for bringing up children. Does that mean people brought up in Cornwall are less in some way.

My close (English.... strawberry blonde, blue eyes.....you know, your parents would approve) friend was brought up in Kuwait. She went to an International school there. Her brother went to one of the Public schools in England instead. She is a wonderful, tolerant, capable, successful, well educated woman.Her brother is small minded, racist and a bit of a failure. They are both equally "English" , except she has loads of friends from many different countries. His friends are like him, insular.

If you feel your children are thriving forget what your racist parents think. You've done well to get away.

I completely disagree. No succour or understanding should be extended to racists. Their hideous views should be challenged and if they insist on carrying on spouting their racist views, particularly in front of children, they should be shunned.

It is a personal choice as to how much racism/bigotry, etc you tolerate or expose your DC to.

You’ve oversimplified this. I disagree 100% and will not be tolerating my racist parents. I’m not telling them what to do they can have their views but will ultimately lose access to my children. My children at 18 can then decide if they want to interact with their racist parents. Based on their upbringing I highly doubt it. If my parents want to be racist and ignorant towards my children’s friends some of whom are actually born in England, have lived in England and in a way more British than my white children then fair enough but the children I’m raising won’t tolerate that. If they do then I have failed at parenting. Their grandfather on their dads side worked in the foreign office travelled over the world, was a diplomat, he absolved so many cultures, he would not tolerate that bs or even spew the ignorants shit my parents have so why should I tolerate it. I will NEVER act as though exposure to racism is something to be neutral about. I’ve spent my working life working with people from all sorts of backgrounds and I have thoroughly enjoyed it, learnt so much, I can go anywhere and interact with anyone no matter who they are. I’ve learnt languages, cultures, customs and they’ve stuck with me. Silence and tolerance is silly in my view. I do not see the world the way my parents do.

Also, tolerance doesn’t mean giving equal space to harmful ideas or acting like exposure to racism is neutral. There’s a difference between understanding that people hold those views and expecting others to simply absorb or ignore them without impact.

Well your kids are likely to feel super comfortable in any sort of ‘expat’ community of wealthy people anywhere in the world. That would never mean they’re going to be comfortable in a normal life in any of these countries though. Bring part of the international tax dodging colonisers of today is a lifestyle choice. You are within your rights and I’m not suggesting you are doing anything illegal. I just think it’s terribly depressing and I’d be very sad if either of my children chose this.

My husband and I immigrated to Scotland from the states 20 years ago. Our kids were born here and identify as being ‘half Scottish and half American’. They have both passports and are very much Scottish. With a sprinkling of thanksgiving and American grandparents. They’re the only grandchildren on both sides and all our parents are sad at how this worked out. They aren’t racist, they’re just sad. I think your parents probably are racist but also sad to have so little in common with their grandkids. That’s super common in this situation. Separating it from the racism is the important part as obviously you can’t let that sort of nonsense be said again. It’s totally valid though to say your kids aren’t British - they aren’t in any real sense. Just like my kids aren’t really American (or the third country they have a passport to based on my birth country. They’ve never even visited it but are citizens).

Your parents are lonely. They are growing old and fear for their future. They are also sad that the England they knew as children is disappearing and your children will never know it.
Please try to understand and not condemn them. You are living the life you choose which is great. You don’t have to agree with anything they say, you could just accept them for who they are.

What’s the England they know ? And why do my children have to know that England? Why can’t we choose a different path. DHs dad worked in the foreign office, was a diplomat. DH only spent his younger years in England then was abroad then came back for his exams before university. Still to this day he is friends with boys he knew at school in England albeit he’s never truly really lived in England. He has a close bit group of 8 guys and they’re all from England ie grown up there, always attended school in England, never lives anywhere else, one speak one language but him. He is still close enough they meet 2/3 times a year. Recently he went with some of them to America to watch England play in the World Cup, they spent time together then went their separate ways. Have already planned their next meet up in another country.

I shouldn’t have to accept my parents being racist towards children. Children who cannot defend themselves. Children who are actually more British than my children. One of my son’s closest friends is Sri Lankan, born in England, lived in England, both his parents born in England, all speak with a British accent. My children don’t even really have a British accent it’s RP but this friend of his an accent where you can pin point that he grew up in West Country for quite some time. Where as my children do not have an accent like that, you couldn’t pin point where they’re from, they’re only seen as British/English because they are white. They won’t experience racism or prejudice.

If my parents are that lonely they need to change their ways otherwise they simply lose access to my children. I don’t want my children thinking racism and ignorance is okay just because it’s family. They’ve been around the world and loved experiencing all the different cultures.

My parents aren’t the only parents we have. DHs parents, my cousins, my aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, my siblings. They don’t spew such nonsense. DHs parents are older than mine and are not ignorant or racist. Granted DHs father worked in the foreign office, got to travel all over the world for work and I guess that affects his views and how he sees the world. My parents on the other hand are just from Surrey.