To be fed up of hearing 'just get on with it'?

[glitterpaperchain]

This kind of 'just get on with it' RE the heat is all over Facebook. People talking about the heat in 1976 and saying 'we just got on with it' or 'we muddled through' (as if people didn't die as a result of that heatwave)

My issue is - shouldn't we as a society be aiming higher than just getting on with things and muddling through? We should be campaigning for better infrastructure, better working practices.

I just think we have all this technology, we're supposed to be a rich country, let's fight to make things better rather than just managing. What happened to the spirit of the first union workers who demanded better conditions and rights? I want to see that spirit back.

Can you for once address the point made directly and not flail around looking for semantics to argue over to evade answering questions? What do you think of what he said?

John Healey
Wes Streeting
Jess Phillips
Miatta Fahnbulleh

Ring any bells?

What do I think of “Every meeting I have is: ‘Who can we tax in order to pay benefits to others?’ They’re asking the wrong questions.”?

I'd like to know what he thinks are the right questions.

I think the fact is, with a top heavy population and half the welfare bill going on pensions, we HAVE to find the money to pay for that. I think it should come from corporations that dodge tax, I don't think it's ethical to find that money by taking from other poor and vulnerable groups.

So I think it is a right question but there are many others. Such as, what investments can we make to decrease the reliance on benefits in the first place?

Which tax dodging corporations should pay in your opinion?

All of them?

Can you name just one or two?

Why?

Because you said big corporations, and I’m asking which ones specifically. Can you name the worst offenders? I’m sure it’ll be easy as you’ve read so many books.

https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/ethicalcampaigns/tax-justice/tax-avoidance-rankings

Honestly, I can't tell if you're trolling or just a bit dim. This is just a list of ministers you've googled who have resigned from the Starmer government, not a list of ministers who have concerns about spending on benefits.

Streeting resigned to put pressure on Starmer to resign so he could challenge for his job.

Phillips resigned because of a lack of action concerning violence against women and girls.

(I have never heard of Miatta Fahnbulleh. Had you?)

See that’s interesting as it doesn’t class the UK as being a tax haven in the way it classes Ireland as being a tax haven. The vast majority of their tax haven lists are poorer countries. This suggests we are already taxing fairly to support the public. In terms of corporation tax, we have higher rates than Scandinavia - would you see it increased even more? And why don’t we have the amazing socialist state they do given we actually tax corporations more than they do?

'This suggests we are already taxing fairly to support the public.'

How on earth did you come to that conclusion?

Because the Conservative right has been in power in the UK for most of the last fifty years. Google "Norway sovereign wealth fund."

I said: I think he’ll resign, like the rest.
You: Which ‘rest’?
me: gives names
you: I MEANT RESIGNATIONS OVER BENEFITS

They’ve been out for a couple of years now and things go from bad to worse 🤷‍♀️ can’t blame them forever. The fact is we are skint.

Because your position is basically that the UK is a tax haven. Then you sent me a link showing we are very much not a tax haven, and in the case of corporation tax (as you zoomed in on ‘the big corporations’) is actually higher than Scandinavia, Ireland and many other countries you probably think are better than us.

You’re all kinds of muddled.

AIBU to think that in a conversation you should remember the context of what you're talking about rather than thinking every exchange is a fresh, new start?

I didn’t say ‘he’ll resign over benefits, like the rest of them did’. I was clearly alluding to the high number of resignations in general by saying ‘he’ll resign like the rest of them did’.

Oh dear...no my position is not that the UK is a tax haven

The sad thing is I don't think you're trolling I think you're trying really hard.

Stop playing dim to avoid heavy questioning.

You said the UK needs to tax corporations more. A country with very light corporation tax is a tax haven. I showed you our corporation tax is high, higher than Ireland, higher than Scandinavia. So we are clearly taxing the ‘big corporations’ (that you couldn’t even name) enough.

But of course yelling about big corporations is better than actually examining the real problem, even if it sounds stupid and can’t stand up to gentle questioning.

Do you honestly think that the economic legacy left to the government - the state of our finances, infrastructure, tax base, productivity - is something that can be turned round in a couple of years?

Of course not. It’s op asking why these things aren’t happening, not me!

But there is not a high number of government resignations.

Four.

Four is a small number.

Thinking that we need to tax corporations more doesn't mean that I think we are a tax haven

I think the issue here is that you seem to have very black and white thinking. I'll say something like we should tax private profit more, and you'll respond with 'and how do we go about taxing ALL profit?'

And your comparison to Scandinavian countries. 'We have higher corporation tax than Scandinavia, why aren't we an amazing socialist state like them??' Because things are very complicated, one type of tax does not a socialist state make. It's about other taxes as well as how you spend it, in the context of a whole history of socialist practice.

Genuinely, I really think you would benefit from reading books. I recommend Ha Joon Chang. (You had a problem with Gabriel Zucman being French, do you also have a problem with South Koreans?)

That's not at all what I'm asking!!