Anyone else in the South East worried about Andy Burnham bringing in a land tax?

[Beachbooks]

With it looking likely that Andy Burnhan will be the next PM, I was interested to see if anyone else in London / the south east were worried about potential tax raises specifically around the land tax rather than stamp duty ?

A lot of my friends who live locally are worrying that he will make the land tax for the South East so high in proportion to other areas of the UK that it will be financially very difficult to afford but then also extremely difficult to sell!!

BTW we have very standard house and garden but we live in an expensive area

@BrownTroutBluesAgainbut everyone wouldn’t have to sell up which is my point. Many people will be able to find the extra money. I said upthread that I understood older homeowners would be more disadvantaged.

the person who bought years ago, paid all duties applicable at that time and doesn't want to be forced out of their home - yes, they have much higher moral ground.

@BrownTroutBluesAgainas I said I prefer the spread cost as opposed to 40k upfront. My CT already goes up every year & I live near a station and schools.

Perhaps you’re right and London will turn into a deserted wasteland & we shall all be homeless. We shall have to wait and see!

The problem with the poll tax was the numbers didn't work.

again, this is your assumption not supported by any numbers. I linked upthread how many people struggle to pay council tax now.

It's the same as saying - oh, those high earners, they won't even notice higher tax and no free childcare. Well, they most certainly will, and will reduce their hours

At least with income tax the person facing an increase has the higher salary in hand. VAT is only if you go ahead with a service or product.

As pp said forcing people out of homes due to a tax only based on area is a really bad idea.

@nearlylovemyusernameso what numbers do you have? Again I don’t believe everyone will be impacted enough that millions will be forced to sell up, plenty have seen mortgages increased by that the last few years.

Not sure what that has to do with free hours which I think should be universal anyway.

And no despite being in a higher earning household I don’t support universal free hours simply because I would benefit. My dc are in school & no longer eligible 🙄

Given the fact that house prices have roughly doubled in that area of the country over the last 20 years, how much did they pay for it ?

Do you have any proof re stats in
’many people will be able to find the money’

Most people buy into a property with an idea of current bills
That’s a fact

Increasing those by even £500pcm will not necessarily be affordable. Hundreds of thousands of people will see far higher than £500 aswell
That’s a fact

We cannot make guesses and hope for the best
That’s not how to run a country

How do you know people can find the extra money?

Prices are already higher, bills and childcare included.

Masses of new tower blocks with properties now being touted as London …. Its not
Improved infrastructure and services etc have effected extg housing prices

I have no idea how much she bought for though. Looking back on sold prices it looks like about half the current improvement value.
Everything is relative. She wouldn’t be able to buy similar sized for less nearby so 🤷‍♀️

You can borrow against assets, remortgage them or equity release.

Or the government could put a charge to be paid on selling, which I think was one thing touted when Reeves was suggesting similar. There is plenty of opportunity to be financially creative to partially liquidate assets.

I don't think it is ever necessary to sell, providing you have the wealth, which someone owning large amounts of assets does. People just lack of liquidity as an excuse as to why they shouldn't pay, and the lack of willingness of the government to deal with the liquidity issue just leads to asset prices being chased up further. OK if the assets are paintings or lumps of gold. Not OK if the assets are places that people need to live.

I would have less of a problem with people making huge gains on housing if they were to be taxed at some point, for example selling and on death. But there are huge tax reliefs for housing on death, and those that don't get them can also move on to trusts to avoid paying. And the same people who complain bitterly against being taxed on housing also are the same ones who don't want to pay any inheritance tax.

We need to tax productivity less and asset gains more.

You are right, people have seen their mortgages increase dramatically. But that is another reason why increasing council tax dramatically is a problem. There is a tipping point. People cannot just go on absorbing massive increases costs when wages are not rising in proportion to those increased costs.

There is a high lump sum of taxes already when selling and buying - stamp duty.

I don’t agree with

‘ And the same people who complain bitterly against being taxed on housing also are the same ones who don't want to pay any inheritance tax’

We don’t know this and many people on the Inheritance thread see the new 10% as a good idea. As do I. It won’t after all effect our lives immediately or at all in fact

Meanwhile This will affect hundreds of thousands of families immediately !

I think these tax proposals are going to go down badly politically. We’re already taxed highly.

Ik some get excited by Londoners paying more but there’s no way there’s room financially for so many. And it will stop some adult dc taking opportunities here which is a huge own goal.

Well I don't agree with the fact that lots of people will have to sell their houses in order to fund CT increases.

Some might choose to. Others might partially liquidate through various options in order to fund it. The vast majority will have enough money to pay it.

A vanishingly small minority might be forced to if they have no equity and have just taken on a huge property with little or no room to manoevre in their finances.

I'd suggest though that if you are taking on a very large debt with no room to manoevre on a few K then your planning needs some adjustment.

No matter what the policy is you'll find a small number of individuals wanting to offer a sad face to the daily rage as to how they've been hit. What you won't see is the thousands that benefit from the increased taxation.

I don't share your views on IHT. Let's wait to see what happens if any changes on that start hitting the press.

Of course many people are stretched already. Particularly with high costs, including heating in winter and childcare. Increases already.

Do you have any figures though
we are talking about at least
1 in 39 households affected

Id like to see any stats on it only affecting a
‘vanishingly small minority ‘

Do you have the proof ?
Or shall we just all accept Govn policy based on guesswork and
‘I don’t think’

Everyone with assetts paying for everyones care will provide an income in excess of whats needed
Plus it will free up a large % Council tax money
but that’s another thread

More than cancelled out by the vast majority of people with high costs including heating in winter and childcare who will actually see their CT bills reduce under these proposals. From what I can see on the web 75% of households across the country will benefit having their bills reduced by an average of approximately £500.

No matter how it is framed I'm not going to pity people sitting on large untaxed unearned housing wealth. This is not where the poverty in the country is.

So you can see it will have a real impact on Londoners already stretched. It’s not easily affordable or little impact. You just don’t mind that it hits them.

It’s an expensive city already. Is it important to you that it’s even more inaccessible to young people?

Do you have any proof that people couldn't pay it ?

Bearing in mind anyone paying high tax values is going to have a large asset to fund those values ?

As an aside
It’s Not just Londoners though
That’s newspaper spin to whip up everyones support that’s not a Londoner
Its also not just people in million pound houses either

Its another envy tax
Labour are so good at these

( exception obvs the 10% IHT which isn’t envy it’s just common sense )

True