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Culling wild ponies on Dartmoor

96 replies

baerben · 22/06/2026 08:14

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15918295/The-woke-quango-wants-cull-wild-pony-Dartmoor-wont-speak-people-fighting-save-lives.html

AIBU to think this is horrendous? I have no agricultural background but as I understand it Natural England wants to protect bio diversity in the area and avoid overgrazing. Surely there must be a different way?

Revealed: The quango that wants to cull EVERY wild pony on Dartmoor

A dozen or so Dartmoor Hill Ponies are huddled in small groups on the misty moor before us, with tails swishing, nostrils flaring gently and tangled manes blowing in the breeze.

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15918295/The-woke-quango-wants-cull-wild-pony-Dartmoor-wont-speak-people-fighting-save-lives.html

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
notanothernamechange24 · 22/06/2026 22:11

crackofdoom · 22/06/2026 21:58

You....you're telling us that an entire burnt hillside covered with the charred skeletons of gorse and trees provides "excellent cover for birds"? Erm...I think the unburnt gorse would have provided rather better cover, don't you?

Anyway, read the article I've just posted (you won't 🙄)

it’s not an entire hill side not by a long stretch.
pre burn it is thick impenetrable thicket. It’s no good at all for wildlife beyond insects. It’s also a massive fire risk.

I have attached an Aerial View of the moor I drive. This was done over a year ago. Pre the burn in march. The section in red is where they went on to burn this year. See how dense the thicket is.
The are in purple was burnt 2 years ago. Look at how much greener and less dense it is.

It’s important to note that specific areas only are burnt. It’s far from the whole hill or the whole moor. The photo doesn’t even show half the hill or a fraction of the moor.

Culling wild ponies on Dartmoor
Someonenewagain · 22/06/2026 22:16

There is another way yes,
limit the amount of stallions turned out and after the drift don’t turn as many back out.

A vast majority go for lion and pet food with a limited number of ponies going into the private owner market.

Pansypots · 22/06/2026 22:18

baerben · 22/06/2026 08:44

Sure, sure, it's typical DM journalism. The headline might be trashy but let's focus on the actual matter, which is the culling of wild ponies.

They're not wild ponies and many of them go to slaughter already unfortunately because they're very poorly bred and there's no market for them.

notanothernamechange24 · 22/06/2026 22:21

Someonenewagain · 22/06/2026 22:16

There is another way yes,
limit the amount of stallions turned out and after the drift don’t turn as many back out.

A vast majority go for lion and pet food with a limited number of ponies going into the private owner market.

No ponies go for meat. None! The market is simply too strong for them right now. No meat man will pay the price.

restricting stallions has isn’t a practical solution on dartmoor for a number of reasons. It’s also completely unnecessary as there is already an effective contraceptive scheme in place which has dramatically reduced the number of foals born in the last decade.

This is not about how many foals are born. It’s about the number of ponies grazing on the moor. It wouldn’t matter if they were all geldings frankly. They still have to be cut by 90% and have nowhere to go. These are not handled ponies that could become ridden ponies or even companions. They are feral ponies.

notanothernamechange24 · 22/06/2026 22:22

Pansypots · 22/06/2026 22:18

They're not wild ponies and many of them go to slaughter already unfortunately because they're very poorly bred and there's no market for them.

That is completely incorrect. Please read my former post.

TimeFlysWhenYoureHavingRum · 22/06/2026 22:54

This nonsense was debunked weeks ago. Its fake news.

notanothernamechange24 · 22/06/2026 22:56

TimeFlysWhenYoureHavingRum · 22/06/2026 22:54

This nonsense was debunked weeks ago. Its fake news.

@TimeFlysWhenYoureHavingRumplease read my posts it is not fake news

crackofdoom · 22/06/2026 23:06

notanothernamechange24 · 22/06/2026 22:11

it’s not an entire hill side not by a long stretch.
pre burn it is thick impenetrable thicket. It’s no good at all for wildlife beyond insects. It’s also a massive fire risk.

I have attached an Aerial View of the moor I drive. This was done over a year ago. Pre the burn in march. The section in red is where they went on to burn this year. See how dense the thicket is.
The are in purple was burnt 2 years ago. Look at how much greener and less dense it is.

It’s important to note that specific areas only are burnt. It’s far from the whole hill or the whole moor. The photo doesn’t even show half the hill or a fraction of the moor.

Sorry, that's absolute fucking nonsense. There is no scrub too thick for wildlife- the thicker the better as far as they're concerned! If you walk through an area thick with gorse it's alive with small birds - stonechats, whinchats, pipits....an area that is "all green" is relatively empty.

But you say you "drive" an area- I'm not familiar with that term. Is that on Dartmoor? Or are you up North and burning the moor for grouse shooting?

baerben · 22/06/2026 23:12

notanothernamechange24 · 22/06/2026 21:13

I am directly involved in this. This is a really real situation. Some of the media have twisted and dramatised the situation but the ponies are really seriously under threat.

Firstly for background. Dartmoor Hill Ponies are semi feral, which means they are owned but live a feral life on the moor. They come in annually in the autumn drifts for weaning foals and health checks. They are then returned to the moors. Farmers (or commoners) own these ponies and they have specific areas of the moor on which they are entitled to graze them.

Dartmoor Hill Ponies are on the at risk register. As are Dartmoor Ponies. Many mix the two up. The Dartmoor pony is actually a modern breed. It was created in the Victorian era to form a standardised pony from Dartmoor. It was created by using foundation stock from the hill ponies and breeding with a mix of exmoor, Welsh & Arab ponies for form the Dartmoor Pony we know today. There has always been a wide variety of ponies on the moors so the Dartmoor Pony Breed was created to form a breed standard for the showing ring.

So what’s happening now?
Natural England want stocking numbers on Dartmoor reduced by up to 92%. That is across cattle, sheep and now Dartmoor hill ponies - which were formerly excluded from their calculations. Why? Because Natural Englands assessment of Dartmoor is that it is in an unfavourable condition and is lacking in biodiversity. They claim it is overgrazed.

The commoners and local groups feel very differently. Whilst they agree some areas are overgrazed (primarily by sheep) they feel the lack of biodiversity comes from the rapidly spreading Molinia grass. Molinia grass is a rapidly growing grass which quickly outcompetes other plant life.
1980 it was estimated that the Molinia grass covered 1% of Dartmoor. Today it is estimated that it covers over 40%. The only proven method of managing Molinia grass is grazing by cattle and ponies. Sheep will not eat it. Over the same period (1980 - 2025) the numbers of cattle and ponies has already fallen by approximately 80%. This is due to policies which have already slashed the numbers of grazing animals on the moors and the unviability of keeping ponies out due to financial pressures in the last decade.
Farmers have been warning about the Molinia grass for at least 15 years. I personally was at a talk with a farmer in 2012 who was talking about it back then.

Natural Englands policy not only makes farming on Dartmoor almost completely unviable. It risks endangering the population of hill ponies. It will also be catastrophic for biodiversity on the moor. Molinia grass is also a massive fire hazard as it burns quickly and spreads rapidly.

We need an increase in pony and cattle numbers and a restocking of sheep in the short term at least. Studies have demonstrated that the ponies and cattle are the best form of control we have for Molinia. Natural England have not come up with an alternative solution. They want to destock and let nature take over. Which is the same policy that has allowed the molinia to spread the way it has since 1980.

Such an informative post 👏

OP posts:
notanothernamechange24 · 22/06/2026 23:16

crackofdoom · 22/06/2026 23:06

Sorry, that's absolute fucking nonsense. There is no scrub too thick for wildlife- the thicker the better as far as they're concerned! If you walk through an area thick with gorse it's alive with small birds - stonechats, whinchats, pipits....an area that is "all green" is relatively empty.

But you say you "drive" an area- I'm not familiar with that term. Is that on Dartmoor? Or are you up North and burning the moor for grouse shooting?

What do you mean your not used to the word drive? 🤔

I drive across the moor 4 times a day, 5 days a week to and from work. I drive this section of the moor 🤷🏻‍♀️ not rocket science

DryTerryandJUNE · 22/06/2026 23:40

baerben · 22/06/2026 08:30

Well, well, that's not a choice is it, so slightly disingenuous too? Farmers have to make a living and it's not fair to put that choice on farmers. SURELY there must be another way.

That's how surplus deer are dealt with as well. Staking licences. We don't have natural, wild areas in the UK. There are no predators for larger animals (except humans, obviously). So culling is often necessary.

JustTryingToBeMe · 23/06/2026 08:31

crackofdoom · 22/06/2026 20:43

There are far better ways to prevent wildfires than swaling, which of course kills any wildlife in its way- in nesting season, too. You talk as if setting fire to the Moor is undertaken as an act of altruism, rather than to provoke the soft green shoots of grass that sheep prefer.

The whole hillside beyond my favourite campsite was black last May, with all the young trees it was hosting blackened and scorched beyond recovery. Yet another example of a "controlled burn" gone wrong.

We are digressing from the original point if the thread but what you describe is not good management; do you know categorically that it was controlled burning gone wrong or could it have been an accident, possibly even a shard of glass setting it off?
If you are seeing controlled burning which is out of control during the nesting season then you should be reporting that to DEFRA because controlled burning has strict rules about how and when it can take place. I suspect that in spite of your use of dialect, you might not have the full picture .
Not all fires that we see on moorland are part of a management program. Sadly, many are started accidentally by morons or deliberately by even bigger morons. 1976 was a prime example of that as was last year at Fylingdales. We see barely any out of control controlled burning.
Controlled burning is mimicking nature. Fires start periodically in forests, grassland or on the moors naturally. The use of it in Britain mimics that process. If you re-wild at all this will just become a natural part of life which is fine but we are a small island. We need to be mindful of the needs of our natural environment and the human beings who live here. Old heather is unpalatable to wildlife but it certainly burns well. Whilst I would put the natural environment first, in a perfect world life is never that simple and compromise is always essential.

crackofdoom · 23/06/2026 08:54

notanothernamechange24 · 22/06/2026 23:16

What do you mean your not used to the word drive? 🤔

I drive across the moor 4 times a day, 5 days a week to and from work. I drive this section of the moor 🤷🏻‍♀️ not rocket science

Oh right, you mean drive over. OK...

And is this Dartmoor we're talking about?

crackofdoom · 23/06/2026 08:58

JustTryingToBeMe · 23/06/2026 08:31

We are digressing from the original point if the thread but what you describe is not good management; do you know categorically that it was controlled burning gone wrong or could it have been an accident, possibly even a shard of glass setting it off?
If you are seeing controlled burning which is out of control during the nesting season then you should be reporting that to DEFRA because controlled burning has strict rules about how and when it can take place. I suspect that in spite of your use of dialect, you might not have the full picture .
Not all fires that we see on moorland are part of a management program. Sadly, many are started accidentally by morons or deliberately by even bigger morons. 1976 was a prime example of that as was last year at Fylingdales. We see barely any out of control controlled burning.
Controlled burning is mimicking nature. Fires start periodically in forests, grassland or on the moors naturally. The use of it in Britain mimics that process. If you re-wild at all this will just become a natural part of life which is fine but we are a small island. We need to be mindful of the needs of our natural environment and the human beings who live here. Old heather is unpalatable to wildlife but it certainly burns well. Whilst I would put the natural environment first, in a perfect world life is never that simple and compromise is always essential.

I suggest you read the article I posted above. Tony Whitehead got the data on wildfires from the fire service which shows a massive spike in uncontrolled wildfires on Dartmoor in March- swaling season.

It also turns out that it's actually legal to set fire to moorland as late as 15th April- well into bird nesting season- there's just a "voluntary agreement" amongst commoners to stop on 31st March. So not worth the paper it's written on, basically.

I don't know why I keep on arguing these points to people who can't be bothered to read an article which sets out all the arguments extremely well, and backs them up with data.

notanothernamechange24 · 23/06/2026 12:11

JustTryingToBeMe · 23/06/2026 08:31

We are digressing from the original point if the thread but what you describe is not good management; do you know categorically that it was controlled burning gone wrong or could it have been an accident, possibly even a shard of glass setting it off?
If you are seeing controlled burning which is out of control during the nesting season then you should be reporting that to DEFRA because controlled burning has strict rules about how and when it can take place. I suspect that in spite of your use of dialect, you might not have the full picture .
Not all fires that we see on moorland are part of a management program. Sadly, many are started accidentally by morons or deliberately by even bigger morons. 1976 was a prime example of that as was last year at Fylingdales. We see barely any out of control controlled burning.
Controlled burning is mimicking nature. Fires start periodically in forests, grassland or on the moors naturally. The use of it in Britain mimics that process. If you re-wild at all this will just become a natural part of life which is fine but we are a small island. We need to be mindful of the needs of our natural environment and the human beings who live here. Old heather is unpalatable to wildlife but it certainly burns well. Whilst I would put the natural environment first, in a perfect world life is never that simple and compromise is always essential.

Controlled burns rarely (if ever) truly get out of control. Certainly here the guys are incredibly skilled at doing it safely.
sometimes when I wild fire is out of control they will get in front of the fire front and burn back towards the fire. This creates a fire break where there is no fuel to burn. This can sometimes then end up being misreported as an out of control swale. As people misunderstand what is happening.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 23/06/2026 13:24

crackofdoom · 23/06/2026 08:54

Oh right, you mean drive over. OK...

And is this Dartmoor we're talking about?

It's an image of part of bellever forest and I think that's powdermills leat to the right of the dart.

JustTryingToBeMe · 23/06/2026 16:33

crackofdoom · 23/06/2026 08:58

I suggest you read the article I posted above. Tony Whitehead got the data on wildfires from the fire service which shows a massive spike in uncontrolled wildfires on Dartmoor in March- swaling season.

It also turns out that it's actually legal to set fire to moorland as late as 15th April- well into bird nesting season- there's just a "voluntary agreement" amongst commoners to stop on 31st March. So not worth the paper it's written on, basically.

I don't know why I keep on arguing these points to people who can't be bothered to read an article which sets out all the arguments extremely well, and backs them up with data.

Edited

which may well be the case but you are missing my point. What I’m saying is that you have a localised problem of poor controlled burning management which you should deal with.

notanothernamechange24 · 23/06/2026 17:15

NeverDropYourMooncup · 23/06/2026 13:24

It's an image of part of bellever forest and I think that's powdermills leat to the right of the dart.

It’s not Bellever at all. But it is Dartmoor.

LittleGreenShoots · 23/06/2026 18:21

How can people read the daily mail for their news- honest question- all that hyperbolic fluff 'wants to cull every pony on dartmoor' as a headline, well obviously noone would want that I'm already feeling lied to, Woke as a description is such a lazy insult used by people who can't formulate coherent thoughts on why they don't agree with something. Then all that misty moor, manes flowing in the breeze, sweet horsey smell stuff is like a bad romance novel. I am interested in the facts of the issue but this was painful to read.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 23/06/2026 20:22

notanothernamechange24 · 23/06/2026 17:15

It’s not Bellever at all. But it is Dartmoor.

I don't remember the Tavy or Walkham snaking around like that. Oh, well.

notanothernamechange24 · 23/06/2026 20:34

NeverDropYourMooncup · 23/06/2026 20:22

I don't remember the Tavy or Walkham snaking around like that. Oh, well.

That would be because it isn’t near either of them 🙄 there are plenty of streams and rivers on Dartmoor! But there is no river in the picture posted anyway so I don’t know what you’re referring to?

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