AIBU to think a man accused of throwing a child into a crocodile enclosure should not get bail?

[YourKeenOliveNewt]

Aibu to think the man who threw an unknown 3 year old into a crocodile enclosure shouldn't be out on bail?

If anyone could provide any insight into the reasoning behind why was granted bail I would be very interested to hear it.

AIBU: He's a danger to society
AINBU: Innocent until proven guilty

I was once punched by a young man with obvious special needs who had 2 carers, I was in a tourist location and just walking with my husband. I was distracted by the sights so didn't spot them walking towards me until I was hit. I didn't blame the young man but I was really angry with the carers as they should have been more aware of surroundings and people. I think you are being unreasonable. it was an awful thing to happen but the carers are at fault here.

The person involved in the Tate Modern Viewing Gallery tragedy had autism and severe mental health conditions. I believe they were deemed to have capacity and were considered able enough to be allowed out in public on their own. That was found to be a premeditated attack, the attacker had researched online ways to carry out attacks.

I think this current attack is very different circumstances and we need to very careful not to demonise all people with disabilities. Your post is very inflammatory and a dressed up post really saying that people with disabilities should be keep separate from society. In reality they are probably a much lesser risk to actually causing harm to the general public than other groups of the population. We aren’t going to start locking up all people who develop depression or a mental health condition like bipolar, on the off chance they flip and decide to carry out murder/suicide. Or even every male member of society because they statistically hold a greater risk to harming children than women.

This was an isolated, tragic incident, but it shouldn’t be used as a way to demonise people with profound leaning difficulties as a whole.

Yes he should be locked up. “Care in the community” is woke dangerous nonsense

And I would assume the carers and
/or their organization could be prosecuted at some point for failing in their responsibilities? I've heard of that happening in the Netherlands.

Care in the community isn’t woke. It’s been with us for decades. Unfortunately it isn’t nearly adequately funded, but apart from those caught up in the system and those who care for them, no-one gives a toss. Until something like this happens. Then the kneejerk reaction is ‘lock them up’. Critical thinking needed.

I very much doubt this man, wherever he is, will be going out in public any time soon. It does not sound like he can go out alone anyway, and no carers will risk going out with him now, wherever he may be.

He’s got learning difficulties so he’ll get a free pass. To suggest he faces any consequences will have the woke team raging.

It isn't people with profound learning difficulties who are out drug dealing, mugging people, raping and abusing, destroying property, driving under the influence and numerous other crimes.

They used to do this, lock people up based on the fact they had special needs. Despite the fact they’d committed no crime.

You can’t just lock people up because they “might” commit a crime one day. There are plenty of adults with special needs who require carers to assist them in every day life. It’s really sad there’s an assumption they’re going to do something terrible.

Id say we just wait until the facts of this case come out before we start throwing rocks.

Which part of do not speculate do you not understand? And a poll for such a distressing incident, that’s one step from crowds at the gallows.

From what I’ve read in the papers so far..
I do believe he should be in a secure unit - not a prison, but in the same way that people with severe schizophrenia or dementia nursing homes (severe) etc. If he is a risk to society - then no, he shouldn’t be allowed to wander freely. He’s been out with two carers and this still happened. If someone is a risk to themselves or others, can’t be controlled by two carers - how on earth is it ok to say ‘off you pop, go mingle’ . In a secure unit they have security, there’s no reason why enrichment activities can’t be done on site. If he can’t comprehend why throwing a toddler into a crocodile pit is wrong - I don’t think he’s going to be missing much by staying indoors!

Carers consequences - reports haven’t said that they struggled to stop him but were overpowered, so far it’s said that one or both (depending on which news) were on their phones. If it can be proven that they were negligent to the perpetrator and public and that phone use was not work related. I do believe they should have a consequence too. Many jobs have public responsibility - if a baker negligently omits a nut warning and kills someone - there’s a consequence, if a hgv driver causes harm through driving without due care and attention etc. I’d hate to tar all carers with the same brush but so many I see are either on phones, leaving patient sat in a wheelchair whilst they stand in a smoking shelter, no real communication - it’s a sad state of affairs.

Prison

I’d like to see the risk assessment and know more about what the carers were doing.

I regularly see carers at a local country park where the disabled person is agitated and charging up and down and the carers are on their phones ignoring them. I have wanted to report the carers more than once but have no idea what care home they are associated with. If anyone knows how I could do this I’d be greatful. Most have two carers present and I give them a wide berth as I feel unsafe and I won’t ignore my natural instinct when it comes to safety to be politically correct. I’ve taught my children the same.

Can the carers be charged if they failed to follow the risk assessment / adequately supervise? My main question is has he ever shown violent tendencies before, hitting or throwing objects or hurting people? If he has ever done this then surely a zoo where there are vulnerable children and animals and school parties present is not a good place to visit? If he has been violent before can care home management be found culpable?

If he’s on a 2 -1 ratio for carers there is certainly a lot of issues
so it’s an assumption but I doubt he’ll be deemed to have capacity

They could for serious charges such as: gross negligence manslaughter. Although it’s uncommon.

I’d very much doubt the carers or care provider in question will be charged or prosecuted relating to this case.

Most likely it will be “lessons will be learned”.

All the people disappointed he turns out not to be a “foreigner” now have another group to demonise. Oh joy.

Not appropriate or sustainable if he has profound disabilities and lacks capacity.

This is far far more complex than “man harms child = man should go to prison”.

This is absolutely a safeguarding failure. This person has committed an appalling act of violence against a defenceless small child. He was in a place where it could surely be guaranteed that there would be small children present. And dangerous animals.

Yes we realise that. No one said it was.

Public safety especially that of small children should come first. He can stay in a prison hospital wing he doesn't get freedom whilst trying to murder children no matter how much you wring your hands about his intentions or capacity. If he'd thrown your 3 year old to their death you'd stop being so ridiculous

Like PP I have seen some very poor practice from carers responsible for vulnerable people in public. I've told the story of when I was in a cafe and two people with learning disabilities were just taken to the door and the carers fucked off. The two people weren't able to communicate with cafe staff and started to get angry and the manager had to throw them out. I felt awful for them but didn't see what the cafe could have done differently.

It doesn't sound like the typical process of arresting and questioning this man will achieve a lot if his disabilities mean that he has no insight into his actions. The focus should be on the care package and what went wrong.

“Learning difficulties” or “special needs” seems like a very quaint way of saying “homocidal urges”. In just this case or in all cases of learning disabilities?

We don't know where he is placed while he has his bail. It's highly likely he is "locked up" somewhere - i.e. deprived of his liberty, not going out for the foreseeable, possibly in a secure psychiatric hospital (some have LD units).

Unfit to stand trial is a very high bar. It won't be like he's just mildly impaired, there will be some kind of severe disability (like active severe psychosis or severe learning disability).

There was a dim woman at work yesterday saying what on earth the mother was thinking to allow this to happen to her child. She apparently never let go of her children when they were three.
Just another simple minded person who knows it all after the event and wants to blame someone. Just as some on this thread know better than the experts who decided police bail was inappropriate.

I have wanted to report the carers more than once but have no idea what care home they are associated with. If anyone knows how I could do this I’d be greatful

Report any concerns you have to the CQC (Care Quality Commission), and your local authority’s Adult Social Care. A simple google search will bring contact details up for you.

Make the reports in writing via email so there is a paper trail.

Include as much detail and information as you can, e.g time date and location of the incidents. A description of the residents and carers, e.g if carers are wearing a certain uniform or lanyard.

Safeguarding is everybody’s responsibility.

Those who have said those with profound learning difficulties shouldn't live in the community don't appear to realise it.