AIBU to think a man accused of throwing a child into a crocodile enclosure should not get bail?

[YourKeenOliveNewt]

Aibu to think the man who threw an unknown 3 year old into a crocodile enclosure shouldn't be out on bail?

If anyone could provide any insight into the reasoning behind why was granted bail I would be very interested to hear it.

AIBU: He's a danger to society
AINBU: Innocent until proven guilty

All these men who are pushing kids and women in front of things, off things (the mountainside in Scotland let's not forget that as well) and yet it just goes the same way on here. But! But! But! But!!!!!!!

Don't know why you are surprised. He won't get a prison sentence either.

You’re blaming the parents of the 3 year old??

Exactly. The reason not to grant bail if they are at risk to others. My expectation is there will be heavy conditions which mean he won't be exposed to others. Easier to implement as he had carers

I mean as opposed to any other enclosure .

Probably because that is where they were when it happened?

My son is 2:1, not because he’s a risk to society - because he’s a risk to himself.

Maybe educate yourself before you post wild generalisations, Jan.

By your logic, 1 and 2 year olds who also don’t always understand the consequences of their actions should never be allowed out in public. Just because someone doesn’t understand the consequences of actions doesn’t mean they can’t get enjoyment out of activities and experiences. People with profound cognitive disabilities still have interests and experience enjoyment going out and about and interacting within society.

This is a tragic case, however we need to remember how isolated an incident this is. Many, many more children are severely hurt and killed every day by men and women who don’t have cognitive disabilities, however we don’t lock up everyone just incase they turn out to be an abuser.

High secure units for both mental health and learning difficulties exist for this reason.

You are not unreasonable to think that but we dont have all the information so therefore we cant really comment on the action of people that are in possession of all the information. This man clearly is unable to leave the home without carers. So after this incident he wont be leaving the care facility. So its not like he has been bailed and will be able to cause more harm. If he was not fit for interview he is not fit to be remanded in physical custody.

The mark of a civilised society is how it treats the most vulnerable members

Who is more vulnerable, a grown man with learning disabilities, or a 3-year old?
Also, from what I have read that 3-year old has a broken pelvis, arm and was attacked by at least 1 crocodile. He will have life long injuries.

Whilst I agree that we should treat people with LD humanely, that shouldn't come at the expense of a young child's future.

I actually know of a couple of situations in my local community where grown men with LD are IMO an accident waiting to happen. One is a man in his 50's who wanders from dawn to dusk hassling women. Another, in his 40's aggressively shouts at any woman he walks past. There is another who uses our leisure centre with his carer and is massive (over 6ft and very overweight). I've seen him swinging round weights and thrashing about in the pool and I refuse to go in the pool if he is in it. They are all accidents waiting to happen, although by then it will be too late.

The parents of the French little boy who was thrown from the 10th floor of the Tate Modern in very similar circumstances must be furious this has happened again. I hope they can look at the psychology of both men and stop visits to places where children might be for people with a similar psychology.

This is the fault of those who are supposed to be looking after the vulnerable people ..... not just the carers but the parents too!!

Shameful comment @IceyBisBack

I have a recently turned 4yo and we were at a zoo last week with a crocodile enclosure, so I've been thinking about this a lot.

Did DH or I have eyes on DS? Yes. Could a grown adult have picked him up and thrown him into one of the enclosures before we could stop it? Potentially, yes.

Once children are walking, you can be supervising them properly and still not be able to prevent something completely unexpected happening in a matter of seconds. Most parents don't take their children to the zoo expecting that another adult will suddenly pick up their child and throw them into a crocodile enclosure.

Parents should have to plan for toddlers running off, tripping over, or climbing where they shouldn't. They shouldn't have to plan for another adult committing an act like this. In terms of who bears responsibility here, the parents are right down at the bottom.

All the information we have is based on speculation. The police made the decision based on facts. From what I've heard (but I don't know, obviously) it was more of a tragic accident - the man lifted the child to help him see, and dropped him.

But as I say, I don't know and nor do any of us, so let's stop the 'Lock him up!' stuff.

If you want it to be a competition then it depends upon the severity of disability of the adult. My friends non verbal son is intellectually similar to a 12 month old. I would say he is more vulnerable than the average 3 year old.
There is no need for a competition though. Children are vulnerable. Some adults are vulnerable. Both need protection.

Just what I wanted to say but said better.

Indeed my 16 is more vulnerale than most three year olds aa he completeley nonverbal and can only communicate in a very basic way
Whereas most 3 year olds have at least some speech.

Its possible that he was bailed elsewhere

I worked in a secure hospital and people would be released on bail to us. They weren't in prison, but equally in a secure hospital environment suited for their needs that they couldn't leave. If they were deemed fit for release we could update the police who would re arrest them

It's likely this person will get some form of hospital order rather than a prison sentence

Quite.

It does concern me that some people think that Bail means ‘allowed to walk out of Court free as a bird’.

We do not know what the Bail Conditions were and even if Bail was opposed by Police/Prosecution.

But you only have to look at the photos of the crocodile enclosure to see the potential for sensory overwhelm. It’s a relatively small and potentially busy, space, with hard walls, meaning the acoustics will be noisy.

It’s likely to be a poor choice of environment for a lot of people with LD to be honest.

I hope it doesn’t turn out that one of the carers had a fascination with crocodiles and that took precedence when choosing the activity.

Where have you read about the child's injuries? There has been nothing officially released that I can see. Are you just repeating baseless rumours?

will be in secure 24hour residential care.

Let's hope it's more secure than where he was up to now then. That poor, poor boy and his family.

As someone said up thread having severe learning difficulties/complex needs/mental health issues must never trump the safety of the general population. In the Jonty Bravery episode he had apparently been saying he wanted to attack someone but was still taken out and the unthinkable happened. And here we are again. That poor boy is alive when that could very easily not have been so, although goodness knows what injuries, mental as well as physical he and his family have suffered.

These injuries have been widely reported by all the major news outlets.

These injuries have been reported on a number of sites and are at the moment simply attributed to "a local person" so whether someone actually involved or a close observer, no idea.

Indeed. I've no idea why some are so shocked at the thought of locking up a dangerous individual.