Why are people so inconsiderate with their vapes?

[MrCollinsandhisboiledpotatoes]

What is it with people and their vapes? They produce these massive clouds of stinky, sweet, gross vapour and they are either blissfully unaware or they don't GAF, I don't know which.

School sports day today so a lot of the parents went to the cafe next to the school between dropping kids off and waiting for sports day to start.

I sat indoors and a few parents were outdoors, door propped open as it was a hot day.

I'm sat there, eating my breakfast and suddenly, a huge cloud of stinky strawberry vapour that's been inside someone's manky lungs descends over me and my food. I could taste it in my mouth 🤮

I looked over and it's a dad sat just outside with his back to the door, his vape clouds going behind him and straight inside the cafe.

I moved seats and no more clouds descended on me but I had made a mental note to either say something or passively-aggressively close the door, not sure which I would have done.

Then later I am standing by the track on the school field ready to cheer my daughter on and right in front of me, a vape cloud desends again, this time from another dad in front of me.
On the school field.
At sports day. In a three-person deep crowd of parents, some with toddlers.
This time I am pissed off so I went and told the headteacher who was stood at the side and he announced over the tannoy that vaping is not allowed on school premises. I mean, who does that??!?

As it may be apparent, this is more of a rant than a AIBU, but I am curious why people this this behaviour is OK?

Unreasonable - They are just gormless and don't realise what they are doing
Not unreasonable - They must know, because it's obvious, but they are so addicted to their stinky plastic puff pens that they don't care.

A pub near us allows it in one room. They do a roaring trade!

It's not only vapes or men.

There are all manor of ways in which those in their teens to pensioners feel they have a right to inflict their ways onto others.

Whether it be banging music out, kids screaming, bonfires burning or people walking round with their beer belly/arse/fanny flaps hanging out.

Yes, they're an absolute nightmare but unfortunately you'd be wasting your time getting exasperated about it as those that do these types of thing can't be reasoned with, won't see anyone's opinion but their own and worse still don't seem to have more than one brain cell, so not even that has a companion to keep it in check.

Shame, but that's how some are today with each generation learning this behaviour early than the one before.

I think in 30 years time we will look back on the vaping trend in same way as we did with smoking. Filling your lungs with chemicals has got to end badly.

Inside their house! Someone who would absolutely never have smoked indoors, particularly when an asthmatic friend had come to stay, but now (to my surprise) vapes constantly indoors.

It is absolutely fine to vape indoors, especially in her own house.

This is quite old now but it's still good advice:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c2f5412e5274a6599225de8/PHE-advice-on-use-of-e-cigarettes-in-public-places-and-workplaces.PDF

Probably, but it's the only thing that helped me quit smoking.
I'm considerate with my vape, but if I'm sitting alone in a park/bench in summer vaping and you sit near me and complain, then I'm not stopping or moving.

Thanks for this, v interesting. So the possible irritant effect of e-cigarette vapour on people with asthma was acknowledged a decade ago (p. 7), but that message seems to have failed to land with many vapers.

Also fascinating to read that in 2016, no-one expected young people who had never smoked to take up vaping in great numbers - how wrong they were!

So the possible irritant effect of e-cigarette vapour on people with asthma was acknowledged a decade ago (p. 7), but that message seems to have failed to land with many vapers.

Do you mean the bit in this section?

2. Ensure policies are informed by the evidence on health risks to bystanders

International peer-reviewed evidence indicates that the risk to the health of bystanders from exposure to e-cigarette vapour is extremely low. This is in contrast to the conclusive evidence of harm from exposure to secondhand smoke, which provides the basis for UK smokefree laws. The evidence of harm from secondhand exposure to vapour is not sufficient to justify the prohibition of e-cigarettes. Managers of public places and workplaces should ensure that this evidence informs their risk assessments.

Considerations for policy development:

- e-cigarette use is not covered by smokefree legislation and should not routinely be included in the requirements of an organisation’s smokefree policy

- reasons other than the health risk to bystanders may exist for prohibiting e-cigarette use in all or part of a public place or workplace, such as commercial considerations and professional etiquette

- people with asthma and other respiratory conditions can be sensitive to a range of environmental irritants, which could include e-cigarette vapour. The interests of such individuals should be taken into account when developing policies and adjustments made where necessary

- vaping can in certain circumstances be a nuisance or distraction for people nearby. Where a decision is taken to allow vaping in an enclosed place, policies could consider some simple etiquette guidelines for vapers, such as minimising the production of visible vapour

Seems like quite a lot of that message failed to land with you.

As PHE say, people with asthma can be sensitive to a range of environmental irritants. So which other potential environmental irritants do you think people shouldn't use in their own homes in case someone with asthma visits? Cleaning products? Cosmetics? What about pets, are they allowed those?

Also fascinating to read that in 2016, no-one expected young people who had never smoked to take up vaping in great numbers - how wrong they were!

No they weren't.

Among 11-17 year olds in Great Britain, 2% of current vapers have never smoked and 1.6% of never smokers currently vape. Just like adults, children who vape are overwhelmingly smokers or ex-smokers.

https://ash.org.uk/resources/view/use-of-e-cigarettes-among-young-people-in-great-britain

Seriously, it's too hot for this shit!

I was talking about young adults, not children - and this seems more in line with my experience of the 18 - 24 age group:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20jeey047xo

20% of the 502 18 year olds surveyed by Ash in 2022 were already vaping (fig. 5 of the report you shared above) - and the report also describes joining in with friends as a key reason for trying vaping.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣What a ridiculous post. Are you the only person on the planet who never does anything irritating?

I have a lower tolerance to people than most (to the point I don’t go out unless I actually have to) but even I’m not patronising enough to assume they are all thick because they do things I deem annoying.

Not sure why you are so offended by seeing flesh on show but interesting to know that people who are comfortable with their bodies (however they look) are also thick.

No, people vaping are the ones who need to be more tolerate, by not vaping on school grounds

I have learnt over my years on this site that whatever people do is wrong so it’s not worth worrying about. The OP reported the incident to the head so it was dealt with.

And actually people who vaping or whatever and aren’t breaking any rules can do what they want.

I was talking about young adults, not children

That's weird because the PHE guidance you were 'fascinated to read' did not discuss young adults, it talked about under 18s.

... and this seems more in line with my experience of the 18 - 24 age group:

Not this crap again!

Here is the study discussed in the BBC article:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(24)00183-X/fulltext

They didn't look at never smokers, they looked at 'never-regular-smokers' who selected the description, 'I have never been a smoker (ie, smoked for a year or more).'

The 1 in 7 figure does not refer to regular vapers but to 'current vapers' which was anyone who 'reported using an e-cigarette', including those who had been vaping for less than a week and those who vaped less than once a week.

So that 1 in 7 figure includes an unknown number of young people who smoked for up to a year, we don't know how long ago, and an unknown number of young people who simply tried a vape at some point or vaped once in a blue moon while out clubbing.

20% of the 502 18 year olds surveyed by Ash in 2022 were already vaping (fig. 5 of the report you shared above)

Why are you focusing on the anomalous 2022 post-covid/disposables spike when that figure has now dropped to 15%?

Why are you focusing on the total number of vapers and not the extremely low proportion of them who are never smokers?

and the report also describes joining in with friends as a key reason for trying vaping

What is your point?

You are Gish Galloping.

@KeepDancing1 I note you have nothing further to say about potential environmental irritants - does this mean you now accept that it's OK for your friend to vape in her own home?

There's something very particular to the UK when it comes to taking offence at anything thats expelled out of the lungs.

Meanwhile ive never lived anywhere with such badly behaved kids and antisocial drinking practices, but nope - its the vaping that gets them.

Where im from people smoke their heads off and non smokers dont seem to mind. Where im from kids are raised to be kids but also respectful and quiet, and we dont tend to get shit faced on trains in the afternoon or have town centres that look like zoos on weekend nights.

YANBU, as per the votes, but a lot of adults are very defensive over their adult dummies as you can see.

Where is that?

https://mft.nhs.uk/app/uploads/2023/12/SMPIL-23-016-Vaping.pdf

Darwinism may step in.

Are you surprised people get defensive when you call them that? They look nothing like a dummy, unless babies around your way actually have vapes of course.

They’re absolutely like dummies, grown adults sucking on them 24/7 and tantrumming when they can’t do it on trains or inside. Throwing them on the floor and wtf are the kiddy flavours about.

grown adults sucking on them 24/7
no-one does that, it just appears that way to you because you're so incensed by them for some reason
tantrumming when they can’t do it on trains or inside
tantrumming? seriously?
Throwing them on the floor
That's why they banned disposables, you hardly see any discarded any more
wtf are the kiddy flavours about
Fruit flavours aren't 'kiddy' + most vapes are fruit flavoured these days

There are lots of people who drive electric and there are also plenty of people that cycle, whether electric cycles or pushbikes. There are also now plenty of electric buses, especially in cities.
And some people walk!

Yesh but the point, which you are doing well at missing, is that those people also probably ride or drive cars that emit? That would be why there are 35 million cars on the roads in the UK and only 2 million of them are electric. In 2024 the average person drove a car 357 times a year and was a passenger 189 times.

I suppose it depends on your own definition of not many people.

I honestly thought the risks of vaping were proven and well known. I'm in Australia and we constantly get articles in the news about people who were chronic vapers who have ended up with serious lung disease. I actually really thought more people would be aware of that - I'm surprised to read so many on this thread arguing that it isn't harmful. I'm going to look up what the health department says here because I'm sure I've read that it's harmful.