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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think these expectations of a charity shop manager are unfair?

200 replies

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 07:55

In the last year or so, the charity associated with the shop I volunteer in has become much more stringent on the issue of the shop remaining open all the time, even when staff shortages make this difficult or impossible without our manager giving up her time off to come in and cover without extra pay.

Our shop has a paid (FT) manager and a paid (PT) deputy manager. The rest of the staff are all volunteers.

Neither of the managers work on the Sunday, so the shop is staffed entirely by volunteers on that day. It's the only full day off that our manager gets, as her working hours cover the other six days.

In the past, if not enough of the Sunday volunteers could come, the shop just wouldn't open that time. But according to what our manager says, she is now being told that if a suitable number of the volunteers cannot show up on Sunday, she needs to come in herself to provide cover, if other members of staff can't/won't. The (non-Sunday) volunteers are usually unable or unwilling to work on a Sunday, so it ends up falling to our manager.

This Sunday, for example - two of the (four Sunday) volunteers are unable to be there. I can be there, but our fourth Sunday volunteer does not arrive until between 1-1.30 pm. The shop opens shortly after 11 and health and safety rules dictate that staff are not allowed to be alone in the shop when it's open to the public. The manager has been told that she is expected to come in and cover.

I am 100% sure that she will not be paid for these additional hours; from what has been said, it's typically expected that additional cover is done unpaid. I think the charity works around it by offering time off in lieu, so as not to be in conflict with the law, but due to the complexity of rota staffing when the majority of staff are volunteers (and thus can have as much time off as they want, for any reason) I think our manager finds it quite tricky to take all of her leave.

If the above was just a one-off, I don't think it would matter, but whilst those of us who volunteer on Sunday do our best to be there as much as possible, there are times when other things conflict and take precedence. Last Sunday, I myself did not come in because my mother and I were looking after my nephews for the day. One of my colleagues has a partner with fragile health and she sometimes has to arrange for him to go to the hospital at short notice. So there are times when, for a multitude of reasons, not enough of us can show up at the same time to ensure that the shop is adequately covered throughout the day.

In the past, it was just accepted that the shop would not open for that day if enough of us could not make it. But like I say, in recent times, the charity has become less understanding/tolerant of this and are more or less insisting that our manager come in to provide the cover instead.

My view is that - given the majority of staff are volunteers, with the freedom to have time off whenever - that expecting the shop to always remain open isn't realistic or fair. We're not a 'typical' retail business in that respect, because most of us are unpaid.

Considering that the only day off our manager gets is the Sunday, I think it is unfair to expect/demand that she always cover, especially for no pay.

OP posts:
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8
BlondeFool · Yesterday 07:59

Ridiculous. I’d be away every Sunday if I was the manager.

Rhymetyme · Yesterday 07:59

A manager should be there at all times. What's the punt of having two managers who work the same shifts and leave gaps? The manager and deputy need to agree which of them work on Sundays, maybe alternating.

Stegosaur · Yesterday 08:03

The TOIL system is fine, but the manager needs to be able to take her TOIL. So she needs to say to management, "We don't have enough stuff for me to use my accrued TOIL. You'll need to either recruit more staff to make this possible, or you will need to pay me for my TOIL hours."

She is obviously letting them walk all over her. This is not right, but lots of companies try this unless you stand up to them unfortunately.

SunnyRedSnail · Yesterday 08:04

That's ludicrous.

The person who is ordering the manager to come in unpaid on a Sunday should be the one coming in. The manager is entitled to a day off.

clarrylove · Yesterday 08:08

Sounds like you need to recruit more volunteers.

user1471538275 · Yesterday 08:10

Unfair to the manager, but @Rhymetyme is right, there should always be a manager on shift, not volunteers only.

Londonnight · Yesterday 08:11

This is one of the reasons I have given up volunteering. The expectations of unpaid volunteers to work as though they are paid is ridiculous.

Where I was volunteering was a similar set up. Paid full time manager, paid part time one. The pressure is huge on these people with very little back up.

Gabitule · Yesterday 08:17

They need to recruit more volunteers.

Secretseverywhere · Yesterday 08:18

It is bonkers but it’s not unusual for the charity sector, my friend was a manager and got 50p per hour over min wage. Ended up working 60 hour weeks being paid for 37.5.

It would be sensible to rejig rota if possible to ensure shop always covered by a paid member. If necessary by talking on another part timer.

Bumbers · Yesterday 08:20

I also think their needs to be a paid manager in every day. Then this would be less of an issue.

Mylovelygreendress · Yesterday 08:24

Gabitule · Yesterday 08:17

They need to recruit more volunteers.

It’s not that easy !
I volunteer at a local foodbank and we are always struggling for volunteers. Hardly a week passes without me being asked to do a longer shift or an extra day .
A friend who volunteers in a charity shop says it is exactly the same there .

Octavia64 · Yesterday 08:24

My mum volunteers at a charity bookshop.

there isn’t always a manager on the premisis. There’s a part time manager who is paid for part time hours.

her charity is also pushing for longer opening hours but the volunteers aren’t doing it,

WheretheFishesareFrightening · Yesterday 08:27

Stegosaur · Yesterday 08:03

The TOIL system is fine, but the manager needs to be able to take her TOIL. So she needs to say to management, "We don't have enough stuff for me to use my accrued TOIL. You'll need to either recruit more staff to make this possible, or you will need to pay me for my TOIL hours."

She is obviously letting them walk all over her. This is not right, but lots of companies try this unless you stand up to them unfortunately.

It’s not okay if it takes the managers pay below minimum wage in any pay period though. She’d have to make sure the TOIL was taken within the same month, and if she can’t manage to have her one day a week off, I’m not sure taking additional days off will be at all feasible.

Wiseplumnet · Yesterday 08:32

Your manager is the only one who can challenge this,with her employers. Are there other managers in the same chain of charity shops in the same position who could join with her to complain. A burnt out manager is no good to anyone.Good that you have her back though. It is ridiculous, the charity would be in contravention of work time directive law at my work place. We also have choice of Toil or payment. Is your manager in a Trade union? Ironic that the charity sector are willing to treat their staff like this.

viques · Yesterday 08:34

If you want to support your manager and deputy manager from this bullying attitude then I think all of the volunteers need to make it clear to the Charity that if they want the shop to remain open they need to work with both paid and volunteer staff to respect working boundaries and hours otherwise they won’t have any volunteers to staff the shop as you will withdraw your goodwill and labour.

PigglyWigglyOhYeah · Yesterday 08:34

The manager needs to re-jig the shifts for her and the deputy manager to cover it. Manager could take her day off on another day. Or have I missed something?

JoshLymanSwagger · Yesterday 08:36

clarrylove · Yesterday 08:08

Sounds like you need to recruit more volunteers.

Sounds like the shop needs to close either one day mid-week or on the Sunday.

What if all the volunteers refused?

They're trying to run a business with 1.5 FTE members of staff, but need 2 FTE members on site.

She needs to look for a new job.

Secretseverywhere · Yesterday 08:37

Gabitule · Yesterday 08:17

They need to recruit more volunteers.

I think it’s getting harder to recruit volunteers for charity shops nowadays. I think there used to be the perception (rightly or wrongly) that charity shops also existed to help the communities they were in by offering cheap goods for those that need them. Seems much more profit driven but by charging higher prices do you alienate the locals who provide your free labour? I suspect there is a balancing act in there somewhere.

I live somewhere very community minded and there are lots of willing volunteers but there’s also loads of opportunities to do stuff which are flexible or adhoc.

Besidemyselfwithworry · Yesterday 08:41

BlondeFool · Yesterday 07:59

Ridiculous. I’d be away every Sunday if I was the manager.

The manager needs to speak to ACAS

This is ridiculous and If they can’t staff the shop on a Sunday it should remain closed.

We have volunteers in the hospital that I work in and we are always grateful for their time but there is a dip in people being available over the weekends as people usually have plans with family etc and then can volunteer inbetween.

Lulusept22 · Yesterday 08:42

clarrylove · Yesterday 08:08

Sounds like you need to recruit more volunteers.

yes from the endless pool of reliable people who are willing and able to give their time for free? It’s not that simple

GreatOffWhiteFalcon · Yesterday 08:43

The managers need to do alternative Sundays. Volunteers will want some Sundays off especially over the summer.

Gabitule · Yesterday 08:43

Mylovelygreendress · Yesterday 08:24

It’s not that easy !
I volunteer at a local foodbank and we are always struggling for volunteers. Hardly a week passes without me being asked to do a longer shift or an extra day .
A friend who volunteers in a charity shop says it is exactly the same there .

I manage and recruit volunteers so I can see things from the other side. It is actually possible to recruit more volunteers, they just need to advertise to create interest, attend volunteer fairs etc

Costs have gone up for charities so staying open those extra hours may mean the difference between breaking even and making a loss.

sweeneytoddsrazor · Yesterday 08:45

Manager has a day off in week and works one day at weekend, deputy has a different week day off and works the other day at the weekend.

Volunteers should not be pressed to do extra but on the other hand unless it's an emergency I think it's bad form to just decide you aren't going in because you have something else to do without giving adequate notice. Whilst it's not paid it is still a commitment you have chosen to make.

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 08:47

JoshLymanSwagger · Yesterday 08:36

Sounds like the shop needs to close either one day mid-week or on the Sunday.

What if all the volunteers refused?

They're trying to run a business with 1.5 FTE members of staff, but need 2 FTE members on site.

She needs to look for a new job.

@JoshLymanSwagger

The problem is, those above our manager are telling her that the shop must not be closed at all during the week. The opening hours stretch over 7 days and to them, that's that.

I suspect the manager feels that it would be very difficult to get a different job at her age (she is 67.)

OP posts:
RandomMess · Yesterday 08:48

One of our charity shops would have the volunteer in doing stock work until the 2nd person arrives with a sign on the door stating what time they will be opening. People just go back later!

The shop manager is going to have to be unavailable and needs to recruitment some more Sunday volunteers - perhaps not everyone works every week.