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AIBU?

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AIBU to think these expectations of a charity shop manager are unfair?

200 replies

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 07:55

In the last year or so, the charity associated with the shop I volunteer in has become much more stringent on the issue of the shop remaining open all the time, even when staff shortages make this difficult or impossible without our manager giving up her time off to come in and cover without extra pay.

Our shop has a paid (FT) manager and a paid (PT) deputy manager. The rest of the staff are all volunteers.

Neither of the managers work on the Sunday, so the shop is staffed entirely by volunteers on that day. It's the only full day off that our manager gets, as her working hours cover the other six days.

In the past, if not enough of the Sunday volunteers could come, the shop just wouldn't open that time. But according to what our manager says, she is now being told that if a suitable number of the volunteers cannot show up on Sunday, she needs to come in herself to provide cover, if other members of staff can't/won't. The (non-Sunday) volunteers are usually unable or unwilling to work on a Sunday, so it ends up falling to our manager.

This Sunday, for example - two of the (four Sunday) volunteers are unable to be there. I can be there, but our fourth Sunday volunteer does not arrive until between 1-1.30 pm. The shop opens shortly after 11 and health and safety rules dictate that staff are not allowed to be alone in the shop when it's open to the public. The manager has been told that she is expected to come in and cover.

I am 100% sure that she will not be paid for these additional hours; from what has been said, it's typically expected that additional cover is done unpaid. I think the charity works around it by offering time off in lieu, so as not to be in conflict with the law, but due to the complexity of rota staffing when the majority of staff are volunteers (and thus can have as much time off as they want, for any reason) I think our manager finds it quite tricky to take all of her leave.

If the above was just a one-off, I don't think it would matter, but whilst those of us who volunteer on Sunday do our best to be there as much as possible, there are times when other things conflict and take precedence. Last Sunday, I myself did not come in because my mother and I were looking after my nephews for the day. One of my colleagues has a partner with fragile health and she sometimes has to arrange for him to go to the hospital at short notice. So there are times when, for a multitude of reasons, not enough of us can show up at the same time to ensure that the shop is adequately covered throughout the day.

In the past, it was just accepted that the shop would not open for that day if enough of us could not make it. But like I say, in recent times, the charity has become less understanding/tolerant of this and are more or less insisting that our manager come in to provide the cover instead.

My view is that - given the majority of staff are volunteers, with the freedom to have time off whenever - that expecting the shop to always remain open isn't realistic or fair. We're not a 'typical' retail business in that respect, because most of us are unpaid.

Considering that the only day off our manager gets is the Sunday, I think it is unfair to expect/demand that she always cover, especially for no pay.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
ShanghaiDiva · Yesterday 12:59

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 12:22

@MyrtleLion

Precisely, which is why I think that managing a charity shop can in some respects be a more challenging role than managing a "regular" shop.

Definitely more challenging!

Schoolchoicesucks · Yesterday 13:17

If there always need to be 2 people to open the shop then there need to be enough paid people to cover those hours. With volunteers supporting and not working as unpaid employees.
If the organisation can't or won't fund that, then the flex has to come from the opening hours. Not from pressuring volunteers to provide more hours then they are willing or able to donate, not through pressuring paid employees to work additional hours or change working hours around at shorter notice and to detriment of their home lives and not through unsafe lone working.

kellymoon44 · Yesterday 13:23

It's illegal. By law she is entitled to one day off per week or two days off per fortnight,

Just to say, this exact same thing happened to my friend who was a charity shop manager. She was asked to come in every Sunday. She killed herself. I will never forget it, ever. Her mum did a news article shaming the charity. I must find the link

kellymoon44 · Yesterday 13:25

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/my-daughter-took-her-life-after-being-broken-by-oxfam-devastated-mum-speaks-out/a/136071885.html

Here is the link. My friend , a charity shop manager killed herself after going through the same thing. Oxfam was the charity she was working for.

Edit, I see you have to pay to access that link now. It used to be free

In the article it says that she used to get one day off. Then she was pressured to work every Sunday, and she also wasn't allowed to be friends with volunteers. She threw herself in a river

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 13:30

kellymoon44 · Yesterday 13:23

It's illegal. By law she is entitled to one day off per week or two days off per fortnight,

Just to say, this exact same thing happened to my friend who was a charity shop manager. She was asked to come in every Sunday. She killed herself. I will never forget it, ever. Her mum did a news article shaming the charity. I must find the link

@kellymoon44

Gosh, that's horrendous. I'm so sorry for your loss.

OP posts:
kellymoon44 · Yesterday 13:35

We should name and shame these charities. Your friend in a paid role is probably too scared to stand up to them. Maybe the volunteers could stand up to the charity for her?

letmebetheone · Yesterday 13:36

I work in a charity shop and we only open 10-4 and no Sundays because we cannot get enough volunteers.

Many people start and agree to doing certain days and hours and also agree to be flexible but they never are. We have one lady supposed to work friday 11-3. She comes at 11.15, goes to get something for dinner at 12 and we dont see her till 1pm! Her reason, 'Im a volunteer, I can come and go as I please, I dont get paid'.
We have a man who was taken on 9 weeks ago to do Thursday and Friday mornings. So far he has turned up on just 4 days.

Speaking to the retail team who do the recruitment just gets the reply 'We cant force people who are giving up their time for free'.

Out of a total of 17 there are a core of 6 of us who end up doing far more hours than we really want to and even with this we end up closing early at least once a week which annoys customers especially if they have brought donations.

Welldoya · Yesterday 13:37

@SorcererGaheris

This is getting a little… out of hand. You have posted about your manager and this charity shop volunteering role you have - multiple times.

I think you need to step away

kellymoon44 · Yesterday 13:38

letmebetheone · Yesterday 13:36

I work in a charity shop and we only open 10-4 and no Sundays because we cannot get enough volunteers.

Many people start and agree to doing certain days and hours and also agree to be flexible but they never are. We have one lady supposed to work friday 11-3. She comes at 11.15, goes to get something for dinner at 12 and we dont see her till 1pm! Her reason, 'Im a volunteer, I can come and go as I please, I dont get paid'.
We have a man who was taken on 9 weeks ago to do Thursday and Friday mornings. So far he has turned up on just 4 days.

Speaking to the retail team who do the recruitment just gets the reply 'We cant force people who are giving up their time for free'.

Out of a total of 17 there are a core of 6 of us who end up doing far more hours than we really want to and even with this we end up closing early at least once a week which annoys customers especially if they have brought donations.

Yeah you can't really force volunteers to do anything

Welldoya · Yesterday 13:40

kellymoon44 · Yesterday 13:35

We should name and shame these charities. Your friend in a paid role is probably too scared to stand up to them. Maybe the volunteers could stand up to the charity for her?

It’s Oxfam

and I would bet a lot that this manager has NOT been told by HR she needs to come in on Sundays AND on the other thread the Op says the manager claims she’s unpaid.

Oh and the salary the Op thinks the manager gets (early £20000s) is nonsense. Literally go on Oxfams recruitment page and starting salary for full time management of retail shops is more than £30k

The manager is feeding the Op bull shit. And the op is falling for it and spending way too much time thinking and worrying about it

kellymoon44 · Yesterday 13:40

Op why don't they have one manager in for the first half, and one manager in for the second half of the week ?

I know it's a sensible suggestion but people at the top often Don't see sense as they don't work on the front line.

My department just hired a summer worker for one department that already has loads of people. They didn't hire a summer worker for my department that really could use a summer worker

kellymoon44 · Yesterday 13:42

Welldoya · Yesterday 13:40

It’s Oxfam

and I would bet a lot that this manager has NOT been told by HR she needs to come in on Sundays AND on the other thread the Op says the manager claims she’s unpaid.

Oh and the salary the Op thinks the manager gets (early £20000s) is nonsense. Literally go on Oxfams recruitment page and starting salary for full time management of retail shops is more than £30k

The manager is feeding the Op bull shit. And the op is falling for it and spending way too much time thinking and worrying about it

My friend also worked for Oxfam as a manager. She WAS told that she needed to come in on sundays. So she had no days off.

This DOES happen in Oxfam

Welldoya · Yesterday 13:44

kellymoon44 · Yesterday 13:42

My friend also worked for Oxfam as a manager. She WAS told that she needed to come in on sundays. So she had no days off.

This DOES happen in Oxfam

Your friend TOLD you this
but i can guarantee that OXfam did not say

COME IN ON SUNDAY OR YOU ARE SACKED

(and according to the OP’s manager… she doesn’t even get paid for it, which is patently nonsense)

Gabitule · Yesterday 13:45

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · Yesterday 10:42

A lot of charity shops are short of volunteers. At least one local one won’t accept any more donations ATM because (dh was told yesterday) of lack of staff.

I do wonder why some of those 1m workless young people don’t volunteer for a couple of days a week. OK, they wouldn’t be paid, but it’d look good on their CV and at least show that they can turn up on time and do something useful.

I agree. I recruit dozens of volunteers who are young unemployed people desperate to build up their work experience. The vol turnover is high because they do find jobs and leave us, and we are happy for them when they do.
Charities have to invest in volunteer recruitment, it’s false economy otherwise.

kellymoon44 · Yesterday 13:47

Welldoya · Yesterday 13:44

Your friend TOLD you this
but i can guarantee that OXfam did not say

COME IN ON SUNDAY OR YOU ARE SACKED

(and according to the OP’s manager… she doesn’t even get paid for it, which is patently nonsense)

Yes they INSISTED on my friend going into work on Sundays. They put huge pressure on her to go in. She told me that they were bullying her and making her feel like it was her fault there weren't enough volunteers

The point is they shouldn't be asking managers to work Sundays at all. This is their only day off!

Welldoya · Yesterday 13:50

kellymoon44 · Yesterday 13:47

Yes they INSISTED on my friend going into work on Sundays. They put huge pressure on her to go in. She told me that they were bullying her and making her feel like it was her fault there weren't enough volunteers

The point is they shouldn't be asking managers to work Sundays at all. This is their only day off!

They can ask
But it’s a question and the answer is accepted

But this manager has told the Op that
a) she doesn’t get paid when she works Sunday
b) she’s only paid early £20,000s

Nonsense. So leads me to believe the manager is also telling the Op another fib about this. My guess? Guilt trip @SorcererGaheris to come in on Sundays

Lurkingandlearning · Yesterday 13:52

I think if the volunteers agreed amongst themselves to support the manager and liaise with each other maybe they could tactically thwart the charity’s unreasonable demand that the shop is open 7 days a week regardless of rota issues.

If the volunteers agreed that none would turn up if it meant the manager would have to work on her day off, it would mean both the manager and deputy manager would have to work to ensure two people were on the premises.

That would mean an extra cost to the charity (assuming they compensate for overtime). They might then realise they cannot insist on the shop being open 7 days as if it was a major retail outlet.

Millytante · Yesterday 13:54

Why would a charity shop be open on a Sunday anyway? Is there really that much essential footfall?

ilovemybluesharpie · Yesterday 13:55

The Charity is breaking NMW laws if they are not paying her for the hours that she works if she is not getting enough TOIL.

She needs to make it clear that she is not available on Sundays, or her and the other manager share them.

Ultimately though if they can't get enough volunteers then they should remain closed on Sundays.

kellymoon44 · Yesterday 13:56

Welldoya · Yesterday 13:50

They can ask
But it’s a question and the answer is accepted

But this manager has told the Op that
a) she doesn’t get paid when she works Sunday
b) she’s only paid early £20,000s

Nonsense. So leads me to believe the manager is also telling the Op another fib about this. My guess? Guilt trip @SorcererGaheris to come in on Sundays

How is it nonsense that she doesn't get paid. They are giving her time off in lieu.

I worked for one horrible job where they asked me all the time to do unpaid extra hours. They told me they would give me time off in lieu later on, then told me I couldn't take it as it was too busy

Shittyyear2025 · Yesterday 13:56

When I was an assistant manager in retail I worked EVERY Saturday and Sunday, the manager had every Sunday off. That's the perks about being the manager.

TOIL has to be mutually agreed, and shouldn't be the standard fall-back if staffing of volunteers is hard one week.

RedRock41 · Yesterday 13:58

She should get advice. Potential breach of working time directive, and other poor practices.

kellymoon44 · Yesterday 14:00

Welldoya · Yesterday 13:50

They can ask
But it’s a question and the answer is accepted

But this manager has told the Op that
a) she doesn’t get paid when she works Sunday
b) she’s only paid early £20,000s

Nonsense. So leads me to believe the manager is also telling the Op another fib about this. My guess? Guilt trip @SorcererGaheris to come in on Sundays

The don't just 'ask' though. I worked for one horrible charity where I was asked to do unpaid hours.
They pile on the pressure like
"Everyone else is doing it"
"You are really letting us down if you don't do it"
"You're not a team player"
"The young people will suffer" (it was a youth charity)

When I was nearly dead and said enough is enough. I told my manager that I was not doing unpaid hours any more, she called me into a meeting and said "I hear you are refusing to help the charity". I said "if I do these extra unpaid hours it means I am working from 9 in the morning to 9 at night". They glared at me and told me to leave. The managers didn't speak to me for weeks after and then after that - they kept bullying me. It's awful

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 14:02

Welldoya · Yesterday 13:37

@SorcererGaheris

This is getting a little… out of hand. You have posted about your manager and this charity shop volunteering role you have - multiple times.

I think you need to step away

@Welldoya

Why should I step away? I have posted several times about this topic because I enjoy talking about it. This is fun for me - I find it entertaining.

It's not harming anyone else and as far as I know, there is no rule against talking about a topic more than once.

OP posts:
kellymoon44 · Yesterday 14:03

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 14:02

@Welldoya

Why should I step away? I have posted several times about this topic because I enjoy talking about it. This is fun for me - I find it entertaining.

It's not harming anyone else and as far as I know, there is no rule against talking about a topic more than once.

Why do you find your managers suffering , entertaining?

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