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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think these expectations of a charity shop manager are unfair?

200 replies

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 07:55

In the last year or so, the charity associated with the shop I volunteer in has become much more stringent on the issue of the shop remaining open all the time, even when staff shortages make this difficult or impossible without our manager giving up her time off to come in and cover without extra pay.

Our shop has a paid (FT) manager and a paid (PT) deputy manager. The rest of the staff are all volunteers.

Neither of the managers work on the Sunday, so the shop is staffed entirely by volunteers on that day. It's the only full day off that our manager gets, as her working hours cover the other six days.

In the past, if not enough of the Sunday volunteers could come, the shop just wouldn't open that time. But according to what our manager says, she is now being told that if a suitable number of the volunteers cannot show up on Sunday, she needs to come in herself to provide cover, if other members of staff can't/won't. The (non-Sunday) volunteers are usually unable or unwilling to work on a Sunday, so it ends up falling to our manager.

This Sunday, for example - two of the (four Sunday) volunteers are unable to be there. I can be there, but our fourth Sunday volunteer does not arrive until between 1-1.30 pm. The shop opens shortly after 11 and health and safety rules dictate that staff are not allowed to be alone in the shop when it's open to the public. The manager has been told that she is expected to come in and cover.

I am 100% sure that she will not be paid for these additional hours; from what has been said, it's typically expected that additional cover is done unpaid. I think the charity works around it by offering time off in lieu, so as not to be in conflict with the law, but due to the complexity of rota staffing when the majority of staff are volunteers (and thus can have as much time off as they want, for any reason) I think our manager finds it quite tricky to take all of her leave.

If the above was just a one-off, I don't think it would matter, but whilst those of us who volunteer on Sunday do our best to be there as much as possible, there are times when other things conflict and take precedence. Last Sunday, I myself did not come in because my mother and I were looking after my nephews for the day. One of my colleagues has a partner with fragile health and she sometimes has to arrange for him to go to the hospital at short notice. So there are times when, for a multitude of reasons, not enough of us can show up at the same time to ensure that the shop is adequately covered throughout the day.

In the past, it was just accepted that the shop would not open for that day if enough of us could not make it. But like I say, in recent times, the charity has become less understanding/tolerant of this and are more or less insisting that our manager come in to provide the cover instead.

My view is that - given the majority of staff are volunteers, with the freedom to have time off whenever - that expecting the shop to always remain open isn't realistic or fair. We're not a 'typical' retail business in that respect, because most of us are unpaid.

Considering that the only day off our manager gets is the Sunday, I think it is unfair to expect/demand that she always cover, especially for no pay.

OP posts:
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SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 14:04

Welldoya · Yesterday 13:50

They can ask
But it’s a question and the answer is accepted

But this manager has told the Op that
a) she doesn’t get paid when she works Sunday
b) she’s only paid early £20,000s

Nonsense. So leads me to believe the manager is also telling the Op another fib about this. My guess? Guilt trip @SorcererGaheris to come in on Sundays

@Welldoya

I think you misunderstand - nobody is guilt tripping me to come in on Sundays. I already volunteer on Sundays of my own free will and if I need to take the day off, I do.

It's my manager who is being pressured to work additional hours on the Sunday when not enough of the volunteer team can make it.

OP posts:
SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 14:05

kellymoon44 · Yesterday 14:03

Why do you find your managers suffering , entertaining?

@kellymoon44

I find discussing the unfairness of it entertaining. I don't find her suffering entertaining in itself.

OP posts:
Millytante · Yesterday 14:07

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 14:02

@Welldoya

Why should I step away? I have posted several times about this topic because I enjoy talking about it. This is fun for me - I find it entertaining.

It's not harming anyone else and as far as I know, there is no rule against talking about a topic more than once.

You already know the answer you will accept to your AIBU though, and supply it yourself.

kellymoon44 · Yesterday 14:08

Charities are mean places to work for

Welldoya · Yesterday 14:10

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 14:02

@Welldoya

Why should I step away? I have posted several times about this topic because I enjoy talking about it. This is fun for me - I find it entertaining.

It's not harming anyone else and as far as I know, there is no rule against talking about a topic more than once.

Your threads haven’t at all been lighthearted.

You have been worried about unpaid Sundays; forced working; low management pay etc. you have been worried about the manager being short with you. And so it goes on

all I’m saying is - it might be an idea to step away. But if it’s important to you, then I’d urge you to maybe not take everything your manager says to as gospel

kellymoon44 · Yesterday 14:11

Op if the manager says no to working on Sunday, what do they say to her,

Tell her not to be guilt tripped. Tell her to set boundaries

Welldoya · Yesterday 14:12

kellymoon44 · Yesterday 14:08

Charities are mean places to work for

Well your experience of working in a charity shop has led you to this conclusion but I’m sure you can appreciate that your conclusion doesn’t apply to all charity shops.

Hopefully you can appreciate that anyway

EDIT just seen your posts about your friend’s experience anywwy

kellymoon44 · Yesterday 14:14

Welldoya · Yesterday 14:12

Well your experience of working in a charity shop has led you to this conclusion but I’m sure you can appreciate that your conclusion doesn’t apply to all charity shops.

Hopefully you can appreciate that anyway

EDIT just seen your posts about your friend’s experience anywwy

Edited

I've worked for several different charities. All expected staff to do unpaid work.

No of course not all of them are like that. But we should highlight the ones that do abuse their staff.

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 14:14

Welldoya · Yesterday 13:40

It’s Oxfam

and I would bet a lot that this manager has NOT been told by HR she needs to come in on Sundays AND on the other thread the Op says the manager claims she’s unpaid.

Oh and the salary the Op thinks the manager gets (early £20000s) is nonsense. Literally go on Oxfams recruitment page and starting salary for full time management of retail shops is more than £30k

The manager is feeding the Op bull shit. And the op is falling for it and spending way too much time thinking and worrying about it

@Welldoya

The salary is not in the early 30k across the board.

https://jobs.oxfam.org.uk/jobs/vacancy/shop-manager-petersfield-trd5571/24697/description/

For this Oxfam shop manager role, the salary is listed as being £27,426.

Other volunteers from other Oxfam shops have told me that their managers are often expected to work additional hours for no extra pay - I understand that they offer time off in lieu of payment. So unless you're going to say that all the managers of these shops are lying...?

I'm not worrying about the issue. I feel sorry for the manager, but worrying about it is not an accurate word for my perspective. I actively enjoy having discussions about my perceived unfairness of the expectations of managers.

Oxfam Careers

https://jobs.oxfam.org.uk/jobs/vacancy/shop-manager-petersfield-trd5571/24697/description

OP posts:
SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 14:16

Millytante · Yesterday 14:07

You already know the answer you will accept to your AIBU though, and supply it yourself.

@Millytante

I don't see why I would need to step away from something I enjoy doing.

I think people are taking such threads to mean that I actively don't enjoy the volunteering. That's not true - I do enjoy it.

OP posts:
SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 14:17

Welldoya · Yesterday 14:10

Your threads haven’t at all been lighthearted.

You have been worried about unpaid Sundays; forced working; low management pay etc. you have been worried about the manager being short with you. And so it goes on

all I’m saying is - it might be an idea to step away. But if it’s important to you, then I’d urge you to maybe not take everything your manager says to as gospel

@Welldoya

I didn't say the threads have been lighthearted. I said that I have personally enjoyed the discussions and found them fun.

Murder isn't a light-hearted subject, but there are people who find true crime to be a fun subject to discuss.

OP posts:
FasterMichelin · Yesterday 14:18

Most employees don’t choose their working hours. They’d have known the shop was open 7 days when they applied for the job. It makes perfect sense for them to take a weekend day each or every other weekend in full each so it’s shared.

The shop probably only survives by opening daily, would you rather it closed?

If the work no longer suits the managers, they may need to look elsewhere. It’s perfectly reasonable to work weekends in retail.

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 14:20

Millytante · Yesterday 13:54

Why would a charity shop be open on a Sunday anyway? Is there really that much essential footfall?

@Millytante

Not as much as there used to be on Sundays, but we are centrally located in an affluent city - so it's considered worth it.

OP posts:
Welldoya · Yesterday 14:22

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 14:17

@Welldoya

I didn't say the threads have been lighthearted. I said that I have personally enjoyed the discussions and found them fun.

Murder isn't a light-hearted subject, but there are people who find true crime to be a fun subject to discuss.

Ok that’s… a rather bizarre analogy that i don’t really see the link but I guess I’ll just look out for your next thread about this manager telling you something awful about her job and you being worried

Welldoya · Yesterday 14:23

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 14:14

@Welldoya

The salary is not in the early 30k across the board.

https://jobs.oxfam.org.uk/jobs/vacancy/shop-manager-petersfield-trd5571/24697/description/

For this Oxfam shop manager role, the salary is listed as being £27,426.

Other volunteers from other Oxfam shops have told me that their managers are often expected to work additional hours for no extra pay - I understand that they offer time off in lieu of payment. So unless you're going to say that all the managers of these shops are lying...?

I'm not worrying about the issue. I feel sorry for the manager, but worrying about it is not an accurate word for my perspective. I actively enjoy having discussions about my perceived unfairness of the expectations of managers.

And what did your manager tell she was paid?

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 14:25

ilovemybluesharpie · Yesterday 13:55

The Charity is breaking NMW laws if they are not paying her for the hours that she works if she is not getting enough TOIL.

She needs to make it clear that she is not available on Sundays, or her and the other manager share them.

Ultimately though if they can't get enough volunteers then they should remain closed on Sundays.

@ilovemybluesharpie

I should probably reiterate that this isn't a problem for Sundays across the board. There is a team of four volunteers (me included) who do the Sunday. It's just that there are occasions when two or more of us are unable to come in, or are taking the day off.

For this coming Sunday, for example, I am going in, but two of my colleagues are unable to attend. The fourth volunteer does not arrive until at 2 hours after we open, which means that my manager will have to come in to cover that first part, as we are not allowed to open the shop with only one staff member there.

OP posts:
Welldoya · Yesterday 14:26

Wow nice benefits for all UK OXfam employees!

AIBU to think these expectations of a charity shop manager are unfair?
SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 14:26

Welldoya · Yesterday 14:22

Ok that’s… a rather bizarre analogy that i don’t really see the link but I guess I’ll just look out for your next thread about this manager telling you something awful about her job and you being worried

@Welldoya

I'm not worried about it.

OP posts:
sunshine244 · Yesterday 14:26

Having been involved in a charity shop before this setup is crazy. A paid manager should always be on duty. Ours had a manager and a pt assistant manager. Manager did alternate weekends off, with a Mon/Tues the other week. Assistant manager did the alternate weekends and also ad hoc holiday/illness cover etc. There was third zero hours type person who got offered paid shift if needed.

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 14:26

Welldoya · Yesterday 14:23

And what did your manager tell she was paid?

@Welldoya

She hasn't told me what her salary is. It's none of my business.

OP posts:
Reigndee · Yesterday 14:30

Id say manager is trying to guilt volunteers into sticking to their volunteer rota or getting cover themselves. Assuming they work Saturday then the assistant should really work the Sunday. If neither want to then they need to formally opt out of Sunday working on religious grounds. Oxfam will then be able to recruit a Sunday only assitant if it makes financial sense to otherwise they will make decision to close.

Welldoya · Yesterday 14:30

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Welldoya · Yesterday 14:30

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SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 14:31

kellymoon44 · Yesterday 14:11

Op if the manager says no to working on Sunday, what do they say to her,

Tell her not to be guilt tripped. Tell her to set boundaries

@kellymoon44

If she says no and the shop has to close that day because not enough of the regular Sunday team can come in, then she says she gets told off about it afterwards - presumably by her area manager, who my manager says is likely getting told off by her superiors.

OP posts:
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