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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think these expectations of a charity shop manager are unfair?

200 replies

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 07:55

In the last year or so, the charity associated with the shop I volunteer in has become much more stringent on the issue of the shop remaining open all the time, even when staff shortages make this difficult or impossible without our manager giving up her time off to come in and cover without extra pay.

Our shop has a paid (FT) manager and a paid (PT) deputy manager. The rest of the staff are all volunteers.

Neither of the managers work on the Sunday, so the shop is staffed entirely by volunteers on that day. It's the only full day off that our manager gets, as her working hours cover the other six days.

In the past, if not enough of the Sunday volunteers could come, the shop just wouldn't open that time. But according to what our manager says, she is now being told that if a suitable number of the volunteers cannot show up on Sunday, she needs to come in herself to provide cover, if other members of staff can't/won't. The (non-Sunday) volunteers are usually unable or unwilling to work on a Sunday, so it ends up falling to our manager.

This Sunday, for example - two of the (four Sunday) volunteers are unable to be there. I can be there, but our fourth Sunday volunteer does not arrive until between 1-1.30 pm. The shop opens shortly after 11 and health and safety rules dictate that staff are not allowed to be alone in the shop when it's open to the public. The manager has been told that she is expected to come in and cover.

I am 100% sure that she will not be paid for these additional hours; from what has been said, it's typically expected that additional cover is done unpaid. I think the charity works around it by offering time off in lieu, so as not to be in conflict with the law, but due to the complexity of rota staffing when the majority of staff are volunteers (and thus can have as much time off as they want, for any reason) I think our manager finds it quite tricky to take all of her leave.

If the above was just a one-off, I don't think it would matter, but whilst those of us who volunteer on Sunday do our best to be there as much as possible, there are times when other things conflict and take precedence. Last Sunday, I myself did not come in because my mother and I were looking after my nephews for the day. One of my colleagues has a partner with fragile health and she sometimes has to arrange for him to go to the hospital at short notice. So there are times when, for a multitude of reasons, not enough of us can show up at the same time to ensure that the shop is adequately covered throughout the day.

In the past, it was just accepted that the shop would not open for that day if enough of us could not make it. But like I say, in recent times, the charity has become less understanding/tolerant of this and are more or less insisting that our manager come in to provide the cover instead.

My view is that - given the majority of staff are volunteers, with the freedom to have time off whenever - that expecting the shop to always remain open isn't realistic or fair. We're not a 'typical' retail business in that respect, because most of us are unpaid.

Considering that the only day off our manager gets is the Sunday, I think it is unfair to expect/demand that she always cover, especially for no pay.

OP posts:
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LaliqueSaltGrinder · Yesterday 17:52

It depends on the charity shop and the volunteers. I used to volunteer for Oxfam, stopped about 3 years ago. The manager when I started was very good and totally believed in empowering volunteers. There were some volunteers who had been there for 10 years or more, and many of us were allowed to open up the shop, lock up at night, do the cashing up, process refunds and the other "manager" parts of the job. The manager knew who was able and who wasn't. It meant that when she was off on annual leave (she did not have a deputy at that point) she knew the shop would keep running. We had an area manager on call, a list of all the other local shops and their numbers on the noticeboard in the office, and store support at head office on the other end of the phone. Many of the volunteers were just as able, experienced and intelligent as the paid manager, they were just volunteering.

When I volunteered for Save The Children, there was no paid member of staff at all. There were 2 or 3 lead volunteers who would do things like the banking, H&S training for new volunteers and volunteer recruitment, but it was a very democratic set up and again, most of the volunteers were very able and smart, just not in paid full-time work for whatever reason. Shops can run very well without a paid member of staff. Also agree with what @SorcererGaheris says about wages, they are very low, Oxfam and Save the Children don't even offer things like staff discount which is standard in retail. And a lot more responsibility.

Regional managers - in Oxfam at least - are very hot on targets, performance against same week last year, year to date, by category. If you're in a store where as a manager you are struggling to hit target of course you're going to feel the pressure to open on a Sunday because that's more trading hours. All the charity shops round here (except the Salvation Army) are open on Sunday. Also recognise the issue with not being able to take TOIL.

LaliqueSaltGrinder · Yesterday 17:55

OonaStubbs · Yesterday 17:50

"Research" is very vague. How much of that goes to the senior management in "research" and how much to the workers? How much good is done as a result of this "research".

I'm sure if you went on the charity commission website, or the BHF website, then you could pore through the accounts to your heart's content.

People regularly come out with stuff about how only 1p in the pound actually goes to the cause and 99p in "fat cat salaries" but if they actually bothered to look into the detail, they'd see that's not true.

ShanghaiDiva · Yesterday 18:01

OonaStubbs · Yesterday 17:50

"Research" is very vague. How much of that goes to the senior management in "research" and how much to the workers? How much good is done as a result of this "research".

All of the information is in the public domain. Read for yourself…
https://www.bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/annual-report

Annual Report and Accounts 2025

This year, we raised £181m to fund lifesaving research and support for people living affected by cardiovascular diseases. Read our Annual Report 2025.

https://www.bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/annual-report

Agapornis · Yesterday 18:19

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 14:25

@ilovemybluesharpie

I should probably reiterate that this isn't a problem for Sundays across the board. There is a team of four volunteers (me included) who do the Sunday. It's just that there are occasions when two or more of us are unable to come in, or are taking the day off.

For this coming Sunday, for example, I am going in, but two of my colleagues are unable to attend. The fourth volunteer does not arrive until at 2 hours after we open, which means that my manager will have to come in to cover that first part, as we are not allowed to open the shop with only one staff member there.

I think you've misunderstood @ilovemybluesharpie's paragraph saying "The Charity is breaking NMW laws if they are not paying her for the hours that she works if she is not getting enough TOIL".

It isn't about a single Sunday. It's about the average across whole year (especially if taking annual leave and TOIL is difficult). If across the year the wage divided by hours is less than minimum wage, they could get in trouble with HMRC.

Btw do you want to help or advise her, or only discuss it here? Because she clearly has been abandoned and it sounds like she's feeling quite lost, and could do with some advice. Please tell her to call ACAS.

Inmyuggs · Yesterday 18:21

A new pool of volunteers.
Back up people who can be called if need be who already help ?
The manager needs to delegate the part timer to work sundays or alternate them

Diamond7272 · Yesterday 18:34

OonaStubbs · Yesterday 17:25

I think charity shops have passed their sell by date. People are well aware that hardly any of the money they make actually goes to needy people, they charge high prices for the donated goods they sell, they take advantage of their volunteers and low-paid staff, , while the Greedy Executives rake it in. And that's not even mentioning all the sex crimes.

True.

Can you imagine the sex crimes scandals if oxfam paired with the church of England or catholic church...? It would be never ending...

All the donations and income would go on lawyers to pay for more cover ups...

Indeed today, the best job in any charity is not CEO, it's the lawyers representing the board and company who can name their price when it hits the fan. Then, overtime is paid!!! (and money is 'found' by the CEO.. 😬

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 18:54

Agapornis · Yesterday 18:19

I think you've misunderstood @ilovemybluesharpie's paragraph saying "The Charity is breaking NMW laws if they are not paying her for the hours that she works if she is not getting enough TOIL".

It isn't about a single Sunday. It's about the average across whole year (especially if taking annual leave and TOIL is difficult). If across the year the wage divided by hours is less than minimum wage, they could get in trouble with HMRC.

Btw do you want to help or advise her, or only discuss it here? Because she clearly has been abandoned and it sounds like she's feeling quite lost, and could do with some advice. Please tell her to call ACAS.

@Agapornis

I wasn't planning on giving her any advice. I simply find it interesting to discuss; myself and another shop colleague sometimes talk about it between us.

OP posts:
GoodLife26 · Yesterday 19:18

In my experience charities can be mercenary and treat people badly. You are a volunteer you shouldn’t feel guilty not to want to go in on a Sunday. Your manager needs to find a new job if they treat her so badly.

1weekinjuy · Yesterday 20:15

You want to volunteer for a charity @SorcererGaheris , which is admirable.

So why not do it for a charity you actually respect? Evidently you don’t at all respect this one

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 20:36

I've explained that. I volunteer there because I have fun there.

I don't volunteer there because of any regard for the charity itself or any interest in the cause.

I volunteer there solely for hedonistic purposes, in order to have a good time.

So I see no sense in stopping volunteering there when I'm enjoying myself. Just as I don't stop buying the products of companies that have been said to do unethical things.

OP posts:
NewGirlInTown · Yesterday 20:40

Haven’t you subjected us to this diatribe before? Almost word for word, with a broken toilet for good measure?

1weekinjuy · Yesterday 20:41

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 20:36

I've explained that. I volunteer there because I have fun there.

I don't volunteer there because of any regard for the charity itself or any interest in the cause.

I volunteer there solely for hedonistic purposes, in order to have a good time.

So I see no sense in stopping volunteering there when I'm enjoying myself. Just as I don't stop buying the products of companies that have been said to do unethical things.

Right. Ok. Doesn’t sound like much “fun” but if you are happy working for free for a
Charity that you don’t respect at all (and make it very well known on mumsnet!) - each to their own

But imagine volunteering for a charity that you have fun in, which scratches your hedonistic (hedonism and volunteering in a charity shop? Interesting!) that you DONT despise?!

1weekinjuy · Yesterday 20:42

NewGirlInTown · Yesterday 20:40

Haven’t you subjected us to this diatribe before? Almost word for word, with a broken toilet for good measure?

Yep, @SorcererGaheris seems to spend her time when not volunteering at Oxfam, bitching about Oxfam!

Feelblue · Yesterday 20:57

It depends on the person’s contract and hours and days set out in it. It may not be for the managers to sort out between them. They will have a line manager (or less likely different managers) who would be looking overall at the working hours. If neither is contracted to work on a Sunday an employer cannot unilaterally just change that without a change of terms and conditions. how does need to be careful if continuing to work and clearly stating objection then may be deemed to have

Also the fact it is a Sunday makes a difference. Even if the contract says they work Sundays then the manager can Opt out as they are a shop worker. However the employer doesn’t have to give them other hours to compensate

Sunday working

The rules for working on Sundays, opt in, opt out arrangements, rules for shop and betting shop workers

https://www.gov.uk/sunday-working

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 20:57

NewGirlInTown · Yesterday 20:40

Haven’t you subjected us to this diatribe before? Almost word for word, with a broken toilet for good measure?

Yes, I have spoken about the topic a few times before. My question is, what is the problem with that? It's not like I was just discussing it last week, there's been what I would say is a suitable lapse of time.

I'm not aware of any rule that topics must only be spoken about once. So I don't understand people's objection. If people aren't interested, they are perfectly capable of avoiding the thread.

OP posts:
OonaStubbs · Yesterday 21:02

Wouldn't the volunteers being doing more good if they got a paid job and donating their earnings to charity?

1weekinjuy · Yesterday 21:05

When you’re not volunteering, you’re complaint on mumsnet about the charity you volunteer at.

and that’s your version of fun and hedonism?

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 21:05

1weekinjuy · Yesterday 20:41

Right. Ok. Doesn’t sound like much “fun” but if you are happy working for free for a
Charity that you don’t respect at all (and make it very well known on mumsnet!) - each to their own

But imagine volunteering for a charity that you have fun in, which scratches your hedonistic (hedonism and volunteering in a charity shop? Interesting!) that you DONT despise?!

@1weekinjuy

People differ in what they find fun. I think pricing books, looking them up online, stocking the shelves and chatting to some of my colleagues is fun.

"Hedonism" covers anything that anyone finds pleasurable. It doesn't solely refer to sex and drugs. I would say t

OP posts:
1weekinjuy · Yesterday 21:08

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 21:05

@1weekinjuy

People differ in what they find fun. I think pricing books, looking them up online, stocking the shelves and chatting to some of my colleagues is fun.

"Hedonism" covers anything that anyone finds pleasurable. It doesn't solely refer to sex and drugs. I would say t

Ok, crack on volunteering at a charity you have zero respect for and seem quite determined for mumsnetter to follow suit (7 threads about how shite Oxfam is. 7!) and enjoy the “fun”!

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 21:14

1weekinjuy · Yesterday 21:05

When you’re not volunteering, you’re complaint on mumsnet about the charity you volunteer at.

and that’s your version of fun and hedonism?

Yes, that is part of what I find fun and pleasurable and hedonistic. Watching my favourite TV shows is also what I consider fun and hedonistic. It is also fun (for me) to read about the occult and practice the occult.

There isn't a singular view of what is defined as fun, like I said, people differ. I find snooker to be very boring, but people think that is fun.

Just because you do not personally see how something can be enjoyable, does not mean that it is wrong or invalid for me to do it.

OP posts:
ClaredeBear · Yesterday 21:16

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 20:36

I've explained that. I volunteer there because I have fun there.

I don't volunteer there because of any regard for the charity itself or any interest in the cause.

I volunteer there solely for hedonistic purposes, in order to have a good time.

So I see no sense in stopping volunteering there when I'm enjoying myself. Just as I don't stop buying the products of companies that have been said to do unethical things.

You don’t need to explain yourself.

SorcererGaheris · Yesterday 21:18

OonaStubbs · Yesterday 21:02

Wouldn't the volunteers being doing more good if they got a paid job and donating their earnings to charity?

Many volunteers are retired, so their days of having a paid job are rightly behind them.

Some volunteers like the freedom of having an unpaid voluntary role, there's a lot more leeway and we can do things on our terms.

Volunteers don't all necessarily volunteer in order to "do good". That's certainly not the reason that I volunteer there.

OP posts:
Northernlights19 · Yesterday 22:49

That is something that I agree they could try - I don't know if they will, as I think they both prefer to have Sundays as a day off. Well it's retail so why were they expecting to have Sundays off?! I used to work in retail many moons ago. I now work I'm care and in both roles you are required to work every other weekend. I also go to church so I go every other Sunday as many others do.

They should be doing every other weekend (obviously opposite to each other) and if they aren't prepared to do that they ought to consider a job change.

MyMiniMetro · Yesterday 22:50

The most awful working practices and toxic environments I’ve ever been subjected to were while working for large famous charities.

The third sector senior management really does attract some nasty kunts who couldn’t hack it it the corporate world. They pretend their step down to Regional Head of xyz charity out in the sticks, was was a conscious altruistic choice. When it was actually the result of desperation, applying anywhere seemingly gullible enough to be impressed by mentions of working “in the city.”

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