AIBU to think these expectations of a charity shop manager are unfair?

[SorcererGaheris]

In the last year or so, the charity associated with the shop I volunteer in has become much more stringent on the issue of the shop remaining open all the time, even when staff shortages make this difficult or impossible without our manager giving up her time off to come in and cover without extra pay.

Our shop has a paid (FT) manager and a paid (PT) deputy manager. The rest of the staff are all volunteers.

Neither of the managers work on the Sunday, so the shop is staffed entirely by volunteers on that day. It's the only full day off that our manager gets, as her working hours cover the other six days.

In the past, if not enough of the Sunday volunteers could come, the shop just wouldn't open that time. But according to what our manager says, she is now being told that if a suitable number of the volunteers cannot show up on Sunday, she needs to come in herself to provide cover, if other members of staff can't/won't. The (non-Sunday) volunteers are usually unable or unwilling to work on a Sunday, so it ends up falling to our manager.

This Sunday, for example - two of the (four Sunday) volunteers are unable to be there. I can be there, but our fourth Sunday volunteer does not arrive until between 1-1.30 pm. The shop opens shortly after 11 and health and safety rules dictate that staff are not allowed to be alone in the shop when it's open to the public. The manager has been told that she is expected to come in and cover.

I am 100% sure that she will not be paid for these additional hours; from what has been said, it's typically expected that additional cover is done unpaid. I think the charity works around it by offering time off in lieu, so as not to be in conflict with the law, but due to the complexity of rota staffing when the majority of staff are volunteers (and thus can have as much time off as they want, for any reason) I think our manager finds it quite tricky to take all of her leave.

If the above was just a one-off, I don't think it would matter, but whilst those of us who volunteer on Sunday do our best to be there as much as possible, there are times when other things conflict and take precedence. Last Sunday, I myself did not come in because my mother and I were looking after my nephews for the day. One of my colleagues has a partner with fragile health and she sometimes has to arrange for him to go to the hospital at short notice. So there are times when, for a multitude of reasons, not enough of us can show up at the same time to ensure that the shop is adequately covered throughout the day.

In the past, it was just accepted that the shop would not open for that day if enough of us could not make it. But like I say, in recent times, the charity has become less understanding/tolerant of this and are more or less insisting that our manager come in to provide the cover instead.

My view is that - given the majority of staff are volunteers, with the freedom to have time off whenever - that expecting the shop to always remain open isn't realistic or fair. We're not a 'typical' retail business in that respect, because most of us are unpaid.

Considering that the only day off our manager gets is the Sunday, I think it is unfair to expect/demand that she always cover, especially for no pay.

This. The working patterns need looking at. It's retail and so one of the 2 managers work either the Saturday or Sunday, not a office type pattern of Monday to Friday. Surely they have worked retail before!

@WhatHappenedToYourFurnitureCuz

I'm not expecting an answer. This is just a discussion.

I take people's points about a solution being for the managers to rearrange their working hours so that one of them works on a Sunday. The manager may end up having to attempt that.

It's my personal perception that both managers would rather not be rota'd to work on Sundays if possible. The manager attends church and would like to go as much as possible. I think the deputy manager would prefer not to work Sundays and after so many years of having Sunday as a day off, may be reluctant to change which days her hours fall upon.

Bit it might end up being something they need to consider, if not end up outright doing - perhaps alternately sharing Sundays, as someone suggested. It remains to be seen, I suppose.

What kind of a mug would work for free in a business where other people are getting paid for the same thing?

You post about this charity shop a lot.

@banmusk

I work there for free - because, for the most part, I find it fun.

There are people who find volunteering enjoyable and rewarding. I do think it's the case that there are less people among the public who are able or willing to volunteer, but many of those who do it, do enjoy it.

@Hwart

Yes - I find it interesting and fun to do so.

With the hours she's doing, she's probably earning below minimum wage? If she can't take the TOIL she's not getting paid for it. She needs to contact ACAS, HMRC, and her union - hopefully she's in one. Unite is quite good for the charity sector.

If I were her I'd aim to go on work related stress sick leave until I turn 68. The charity is not more important than her wellbeing.

I've worked in the sector for years and there are plenty of charity employers who take advantage and guilt trip. She's old enough not to fall for that shit anymore.

Excellent answer.

As a charity shop regular, I'm also tired of seeing the same stock week after week, knowing full well that more has been donated, but all the good bits have been listed on ebay or similar sites by the volunteers in the warehouse or back store rooms. There's nothing good going out into the shop.

Oxfam have all their jewellery, cameras, militaria, antique books, silver, crystal, tech, online... Listed on their ebay account, often at silly high prices.

No point going into the shops... Certainly no good deals any more.

Yes, I know they have to get the 'best price', and I know it's galling when flog it and antiques roadshow say "I bought it in a charity shop for two pounds" and it's worth thousands, but 99.9999% of the time that's not the case...

The CEO's need to be less greedy on their wages. Talking like MPs that they 'need' massive salaries to attract the 'best people' just reminds me of greedy duck house conservatives and Lady Mone of Mayfair :)...

I volunteered once, never again.
I was interviewed by one person & told what I would be doing.
When I arrived, the Manager told me to clean the toilets.
I don't clean my own toilets, I walked out.

I would have done the same.
Unfortunately if you work for free that allows people to think that you are worth nothing, and then treat you as if you are worth nothing.
I'm going off topic here but this is also part of the reason that men are able to subordinate women, ie women typically do the unpaid work and that makes it easier to treat them as if they are worthless.

@banmusk

I don't think that's a universal experience. I work for free in this shop, through choice, and I don't feel that I'm treated as though I'm worth nothing.

The benefits of volunteering (working for free) is that it can be done on your own terms and there's a lot of freedom and leeway that you don't get if you're in a paid role. Volunteers can take as much time off as they want, for any reason.

Years back, we used to have a volunteer who took at least two months off during the summer, as she was holidaying in France then.

This is the difficulty with using volunteers, they don’t have to volunteer if it doesn’t suit them.

The Working Time Directive might apply. There’s something about not working more than a set number of days in a row. Also if the additional hours without pay take her total pay below minimum wage per hour, they can’t do that.

All that goes without saying; if you're not getting paid then the person or organisation that you're working for has absolutely no leverage over you!

I'm pretty sure this is in breach of the working time directive and not a bit they can opt out of:

https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work

Uninterrupted 24 hours once per week or an uninterrupted 48 hours once per fortnight.

The manager might not want to have a fight but the law is on their side if they do want to.

@MyrtleLion

Precisely, which is why I think that managing a charity shop can in some respects be a more challenging role than managing a "regular" shop.

The oxfam bookshop where I live is never open on Sundays. Odd that they have different expectations in different places

@banmusk

Yes - my point is that the freedom and leeway is attractive and part of the reason that some people choose to volunteer.

@user9764325677

It seems to be pretty normal - not all Oxfam shops are 100% uniform and operate in exactly the same way. Some Oxfams have higher prices than others (I realise that Oxfam as a whole is often perceived pricey in general, just saying that some shops might have a higher/lower minimum price than others.)

I think this requiring two members is unique to charity/ voluntary sector sector, possibly for insurance, possibly to protect volunteers from allegations of theft or inappropriate behaviour type stuff.

Op They are unfair but the managers need to look at there working hours people seem to think if your salaried you are expected to work additional hours for free but there is still a working regulation if they are on 50k and working 60 hours then the salary isn’t as good as they think if they work Sunday they need others in during the week to cover the shop so they can have a day off in the week which they are legally entitled to. Oxfam are getting greedy they open shops the prices aren’t even cheap compared to the past they forget that items are given to them for free but still expect to make loads of money.

but why on earth would you? I mean fair play to all the volunteers who do, but I wouldn't! that's an awful lot of responsibility for no pay.

OP it seems like there are a few different things going on. Yes it's unreasonable for the charity to overall expect so much of both their paid staff and volunteers, and particularly crap when charities behave like this. However, ultimately the only person who can change this is your manager. Her not feeling she can get another job is up to her. Personally I can't imagine that many people would be rushing to earn a pittance and work 7 days a week.

As pp's have suggested there probably are ways the rota could be worked more effectively. Personally I would suggest the shop closes on a Monday or different quieter day if there are just not enough bodies to staff it and Sundays are more profitable, but ultimately only your manager can make the decision on how many hours she is willing to work. If she put her foot down and didn't come in on a Sunday, the shop would have to close. What would the charity ultimately be able to do about it? She'd probably have an excellent case for unfair dismissal if they sacked her, as they are essentially asking her to go over and above her contract and possibly relevant legislation like the WTD if she isn't getting sufficient time off. But only she can decide what to do about it.

The manager needs to speak to HR. She should not be working more than contracted hours unless she has signed a increased work ling hoursbagreemenet (in which case it is illegal for them not to pay her) or she is officially volunteering. In which case that Sunday would have to be worked as if she were a volunteer.

Some regional managers are a bit too power crazed and believe they can ask more of their staff than they actually can.

There is no way they will fire a manager who says no. I hope shes a member of the union. They have a lot of power in Oxfam.

Surely a paid member of staff should be picking up a Sunday anyway. When there are only 2 paid staff members they shouldn't both be having the same day off every week.

Me. I’ve been a volunteer for six years. I don’t consider myself a mug.