AIBU to see this case as the real two tier policing in practice?

[Allisnotlost1]

To think this is an example of the real two tier policing:
https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15907467/Former-detective-helped-smuggle-drugs-blades-prison-drones-escapes-jail-judge-heard-breastfeeding-youngest-four-children.html

Ex copper, woman at that, commits serious crime and funds a great lifestyle, when it comes to it she pisses off home and the men go to prison. Prisons that are awash with drugs by the way, because of shitbags like her.

So, IABU - two tier policing is either not a thing or is only about race

IANBU - two tier policing actually very often benefits white women and people in positions of power more than anyone else.

Do people really think sentencing and policing are different things? To me that’s like thinking what happens in GP surgeries is different to what happens in hospitals. Police are the front door to the CJS. The only people who come before the court for trial and sentencing are those the police arrest and charge or put up for charging. The courts try and sentence and that further lets the police know what is worth policing. They’re inextricable.

Those mitigations don’t have to result in a suspended sentence though. And do you really believe they would have were she not an ex-cop? I don’t for a second.

Well, yes. We have different words for things.

The front door is the front door to the hallway.

If I said “AIBU to find it odd how many front doors are carpeted these days” MNers would be pretty confused.

”two-tier justice” would cover both.

Yes. And the police put her up in front of the CPS, even though she was a woman, and an ex police officer.

she got not differential treatment from the police. The “tiers” were exactly the same.

once the case goes to the CPS that’s in their, ant the courts role. Police have nothing say on who gets charged and the sentence once they have presented their evidence.

the police “opened the door” to the CPS, to use your own phrase. They did their job.

if she hadn’t been investigated or charged due to being a woman, that would be two tier policing. But she was. So your argument is not valid.

Again though, those mitigations were considered by the court.

the police had no influence or role in the judges decision.

That isn’t two tier policing either, as both cases have still been investigated by the police and charged by the cps. Jail time is decided by the judge.

two tier policing would be if the investigated and went to the cps for one case, while ignoring the other because the tweeter was white/male/lefty or whatever their identity.

I was talking about the case I posted, I assumed you were giving a hypothetical example. Lucy Connolly’s case isn’t either of the things you mentioned.

I can think of reasons to justify the special consideration of a pre sentence report for all of those categories except one.

Why are ethnic minority, cultural minority, and/or faith minority community all lumped in together as having the same need for special consideration? And what ‘need’ is that?

Are they suggesting that people in these groups are all far more likely to have different mitigating circumstances for sentencing purposes, or are more likely to be repeat offenders? Or are less likely to be criminals than people of British origin?

I take your point, but I don’t see the two sides as disconnected as that. Two tier policing is a phrase that has been used about the policing and sentencing aspects of criminal justice, as a short hand.

Yes true! I find in technical things people tend to conflate multiple things, which is why I have done so. Turns out this thread has attracted the section of MN who is really hot on the technical meanings - honestly I’m just glad that section exists!

Oh bore off. I bet you got so excited at the prospect of attacking the police service. Bet you’d be first on the phone if you needed them. I wish there was a list of people who blindly criticise them and the police didn’t have to help them. That would be great two tier policing.

Lucy Connolly’s tweet was awful but didn’t actually do or cause anything. She deleted it within hours but was arrested, charged and imprisoned. She was given no opportunity to apologise.

Whereas ‘Hope Not Hate’ founder Nick Lowles falsely claimed to his 100.000 followers that a Muslim woman had been attacked with acid during the riots and caused large and angry gatherings of Muslim men. He was allowed to delete and apologise with no sanction.

Labour councillor Ricky Jones was actually charged with encouraging violent disorder by broadcasting to a crowd that a group of people were ‘disgusting Nazi fascists" while making a throat slitting motion with his hand. Somehow he was found not guilty despite his actions being caught on film.

Those things do not seem to stack up.

It’s not ‘blindly criticising’ to think that law enforcement who break the law should feel the full force of it. They destroy faith in the profession and make it more dangerous for the good ones who do the job. Surprised if you care about them that you’d defend the bent ones, but each to their own.

I think that police have a slightly higher bar on being sent to prison as they get more violence from inmates.

I don’t know why you are bringing race into it though, there’s nothing to suggest different treatment if she had been another race.

I agree that the fact she was breastfeeding probably reduced the sentence as it have such a severe impact on the baby. In that way it is two tier although I don’t know if the crime would qualify for a custodial sentence.

When you say ‘the real two tier policing’ are you implying that this isolated and not at all clear cut case is worse than having two tier policing actually written into policy for police forces and potentially affecting every white British person that comes into contact with the police? Not to mention causing an innocent young man to die in handcuffs?

Just to add insult to injury, it appears that the brother of the murderer who conspired with the murderer and his mum to pervert the course of justice may not be charged for his significant contribution to this young man’s death.

Not the point of the thread, but have you ever seen a more unlikely group of people?

how on earth did they all end up working together in this gang?

Do you think that’s right though, that police should be (even slightly) shielded from prison?

thing is though when you lump the cps, courts and sentencing in as Police work. Then it will destroy confidence in the Police, for something they have no control over. And the CPS and the courts carry on with no negative comeback- it’s them we need to be shouting about for light sentences, having a go at the police and calling them two tier gets us nowhere. It’s misdirection away from the actual problem.

in their case the police have investigated and brought a Police Officer to the CPS and court. They haven’t covered it up, or dealt with it internally, which would actually be two tier. They have done a full investigation, got charges brought, and built a case to get a guilty verdict.

so in this case they haven’t covered got rid of the bad apple. And people are still blaming them for being “two tier” and her getting a lighter sentence.

focus your anger on the court who imposed the sentence. Same as those two rapist boys- the police did their job, got them in front of a court and secured a guilty verdict. The judge imposed the sentence.

i am sure the police are just as frustrated at some of the sentencing as you are. Blaming them for something out of their control helps no one and won’t change anything.

oh and I’m sure anyone can report an unduly light sentence for judicial review. You don’t have to be involved to do so- you could do that if you don’t agree with her sentence?

Here- you can report a sentence:

https://www.cps.gov.uk/prosecution-guidance/unduly-lenient-sentences

if you report it you might get more of a result than trying to convince mumsnet that the police have any sort of control on this.

No two tier policing is about, funnily enough, policing... its about the poor white girls who were handed to their attackers by the police, or the anti-government tweets which require more police response than someone being burgled or attacked.... this is avout poor sentencing- which is, i totally agree, abysmal and unfair but no lack of policing went on here.

I don’t think we should ever be talking about two tier policing to be honest, because I think that’s made up bullshit by people with an agenda. The point I was trying to make - and I accept it hasn’t landed as intended - is that there are real systemic injustices in policing and justice like this, where bent coppers get suspended sentences, where women are routinely sentenced more leniently than men for the same crimes. They’re by no means the only injustices, victims are also let down every day. So no, I’m not celebrating the police being attacked or blaming them for the sentence here. But I was hoping for a more nuanced discussion about how messy it all is, instead of the rather exhausting versions of ‘two tier policing’ we’ve seen debated over the last couple of weeks. That didn’t work, ho hum.

I haven’t confirmed but I think this charge is excluded from the ULS.

It depends on what sentence she would hsve been uo for beforehand. I dont know for sure that it is unduly lenient. You'd have to see what the sentence starts at for her specific crime.

Yes this is exactly right. The police get very angry that people think that they are the ones who let criminals off. All they do is suggest to the CPS who should be convicted of a crime.

Why would being female (an oppressed sex class) be a mitigating factor but not being from an oppressed racial demographic?