AIBU to think that all men are…

[Millie2008]

… really pretty useless?! Well not all men I’m sure.
But a lot of them.
I just feel like I’m seeing examples of useless men
every way I turn…
-weaponised incompetence
-childishness
-selfishness
-carelessness
the list goes on…

I feel like once you see it you can’t unsee it. Friends, family, personal experience, out in public, everywhere!

Happy to be proved wrong

I was just thinking, I’m not sure I can ever go back
to dating men. At my stage of life they will likely be divorced men. And all I’ll be thinking is what did you do to piss your ex off enough to want to leave you…

@JustJugglingCats
" If a man is raised by a woman, who is at fault for the man's attitude and behaviour?"

Oh for heaven's sake, you are still doing it! Why would a man be raised by a woman? You are contradicting yourself if you imply that it is a woman's role to raise good men. By your alleged logic, women should refuse to accept that it is our sole duty to raise good men, just as we should shun the notion that it is our sole duty to do the housework etc. Their fathers should be excellent role models, surely. Their fathers should be ensuring their sons grow up to do their share.

And if they are raised by single mothers... Er...is it not the fathers' and society's responsibility to ensure the role of raising children is shared fairly and effectively between both parents?

Get those absentee fathers to step up. Make it a point of social shame if a man isn't a good dad. It used to be cool to drink and drive when I was a teen. Now it is seen as pathetic,shameful and something no good friend would allow someone to do. We could do the same with absentee fathers - make it the saddest most pathetic least desirable quality a man could have, to walk away from pregnant women and young children. We could as a society, normalise good parenting by men, so that anyone who slips is villified - just as good enough mothering is normalised and sub-par mothering is villified.

I know lots of really lovely men who pull their weight including my husband who is really driven at work, keeps himself fit and is very house proud (more than me!) plus a great dad. I have noticed that some women enable their husband’s shit behaviour by treating them like a child. When my husband has the kids I leave him to it, I don’t micro manage him by packing bags and selecting outfits etc. I don’t know any men who sit around playing video games while their wives do everything.

My dad, brothers, grandad and uncles/great uncles seem to be alright, the men I've been in relationships with have been shite. I'm stayed single! I'm hopeful I'll raise DS to be one of the good ones.

Because a lot of the times fathers aren't there. Which is crap, because they should be. I'm not excusing them. I'm just saying that if a woman is 100% responsible for raising a son, then 100% of the responsibility for raising a good man belongs to the woman. So if that son grows up to be a shit man, then yes, I can blame the woman!

Look, I'm a woman, I think women mostly get the shitty, short end of the stick of life, but I'm not blind or stupid to my sex, women are not the helpless, passive weaklings that some make them out to be. Irrespective of the input of any man in their child's life, it is our responsibility as PEOPLE (who happen to be women) to make sure that the good attitude over rules any shitty influence. That's just the way it should be. So yes, 50% of the influence may try to pass on their crap attitude, it's up to the other 50% to make sure it doesn't stick.

You are making it women's job to raise good sons. Why is that not their fathers' duty?
And you are making it the fathers job to raise good sons, why is that not their mothers' duty? It's time to take responsibility rather than trying to blame someone else. Whichever way you look at it women are 50% to blame because we are 50% of the influence (and in reality probably more) and that's something you cannot argue with.

It really is. There was a wonderful, admirable teenage boy on the radio a few weeks back, fighting hard against the message that masculinity is fundamentally toxic. he said when he put the word 'masculinity' into Google, all the top searches were coupled with the word 'toxic' and this leads young boys and men to believe their own natural masculinity is perceived as toxic. Hostility breeds hostility. We need to ensure young men are encouraged to embrace healthy masculinity - to take pride in being strong, hard working, ethical, brave, caring, protective etc.

that’s because you’re not in a relationship with your dad, brothers or uncles. You don’t need a high level of cooperation from them.

Absolutely!

I remember once being really upset after a long term relationship broke up. It wasn’t an easy relationship. My partner had mental health issues that resurfaced - nothing violent or abusive to me, mostly self hate that was difficult to live with. But there was a lot of good there too. My friends and family seemed really surprised that I wasn’t wholly relieved and happy that the relationship was finally over. I asked why, and they said that all I ever told them was about the awfulness of it all. Now perhaps I should have shared more of the good, but I thought they saw that when they saw us together and besides, it’s often the hard things that we need to share/ vent/ talk about. To go on and on about how good things are and how much we’re in love doesn’t feel so needed. And it feels rather boastful. But maybe we should more often. Share the happiness especially when the world so often feels so grim.

I often hope that MN is that. That people are venting and that they’re not all in horrendous relationships with people that they not only seem not to love but also not to like. I often feel in the minority on here as I like my DP and he’s a rather good person. Of course he can be an idiot at times and unreasonable and incredibly annoying. But so can I. Also, unlike the impression you’d get from most of MN, he’s far tidier and organised than me!!! I leave cupboard doors open and wet towels on the bed, he’s the magic fairy who comes along later and sorts it out! I’m sure (I know!) that he finds that deeply annoying, but I’m also pretty sure he can see past the little things.

YABU to think 'all men' are anything, frankly.

It would piss me off to be told, by a bloke, 'Oh well - all women are...'

People are individuals. It doesn't help to say, 'Yeah, well - most men..'

I still don't want to be told 'Most women are nags. Most women can't drive properly. Most women are hysterical/over sensitive/got no sense of humour'.

Posts like this are irritating because they are written by bigots.

I agree with you. My DH is a superior person than I am. Patient, supportive, hardworking, always thinking of others etc
Thank God I was attractive enough to bag him and intelligent enough to keep him 😂

I am sure that there are many good men out there, I know some who are married to my friends and family.
That said, I have never been involved with a :decent ' one.
And my experience supports that when you meet a man who is divorced with young children, it quickly comes to light why their ex wives divorced them.
Cynical but true.

It’s funny how people, 80% of the time, cite the wonderful men they know as people they’ve never been romantically involved with themselves. It’s the drudgery and mundanity of family life and coparenting that men seem to fall down at - they can manage their jobs, hobbies and socialising with their own friends very easily. So of course you won’t see your uncle never bothering to arrange a birthday party or spontaneously deciding to clean the bathroom without prompting.

But it’s interesting you call keeping fit ‘pulling their weight’. Not only are women never ever described as ‘pulling their weight’, a woman who spent a lot of time at the gym would be considered selfish.

I don’t think all men are useless anymore than I think all women are however I’ve come to the conclusion that an awful lot of men are creepy. Lots of men know that being a creep is totally unacceptable but they are still quietly and carefully creepy. I’m going to sound a bit Mary Whitehouse but I think a lot of men are driven by sex.

This childish characterisation of people or whole groups of them as blanket “good” or “bad” really is pathetic.

Boys typically idolise and learn how to be a man from their fathers. If you have a domineering lazy father, who expects to be treated like a king whilst treating his wife as a servant, that’s what the son will learn. It takes effort to break a cycle.

Too many women try and micromanage instead of letting the men do it their way!!!

I had a friend who would always complain about how her husband dressed their baby. She would complain the outfit didn’t match and then take over and redress the baby!!!

@FernFaeryI meant he looks after himself and so do I. We both want to feel good in our bodies and remain attractive to each other. Neither of us use a gym we mainly do weights at home and he cycles to and from work. We make sure we make time for each other to exercise and for general self care stuff. I see that as an important part of a relationship.

And can you not see, by the same token, if the boy sees his mother standing up to his father and not allowing herself to be treated like a doormat, walking away if necessary, then the boy will learn that women are equal and to be respected as such. And yes, it takes a great deal of effort to break the cycle, but are our children not worth it? Even at our own expense if it means our sons turn into great men and our daughters don't have to go through what their mothers did?

I have a daughter, she will never take crap from a man. She has seen her father treat me with respect and equality and I have banged into her that that is the way it should be, no exceptions. Her uncle is a lazy, stupid, foul-mouthed man because my sister allows it. My daughter would have kicked him out a long time ago if she had been in that relationship. It is almost irrelevant what a shit a father might be because we as mothers can't just say "well, his father was a lazy arse so that's why he is, he's following in his footsteps!" Aaaaagh, makes me want to scream!! Stop being so bloody passive and making excuses for ourselves. Someone else is a bad influence? Okay, we can't change that, however, we CAN and MUST be a stronger, GOOD influence and that's something we DO have control over.

I know I wasn’t sniping but it’s always interesting comparing the language. If he wrote about you ‘she pulls her weight. She keeps fit and is houseproud’ I’m not sure why but it would sound odd, like ‘is it really worthy of comment that she doesn’t live in a pig sty and has hobbies?’

You could get in touch with Andrew Tate and see if he's interested in setting up a rival faction - he might well appreciate a world with twice as much hatred in it that covers both sides.

But boys AND girls learn to be decent, respectful, responsible, wise, confident human adults from BOTH of their parents (assuming that they actually have them both on the scene).

They really aren't two separate species.

Do you want to go back to dating? A single, peaceful life (not sure how old you are) sounds lovely. And if men really are as bad as you think they may be, what's the point of dating any of them? It's like saying: I really hate crisps but I've just been to about 10 different shops to see if I can find just one I like. No, still hate all of them. I think I read recently about a woman who died well into her hundredth decade. The secret of her long, happy life was being single and drinking whisky. Amen

By whom??? I'd never think a woman who spent a lot of time at the gym was selfish. I'd be impressed she was looking after herself so well. Do you really think that?

I don’t but a lot of society does, sadly.

Come on, apart from a few cranks, who actually thinks a woman in a gym is selfish? It’s not a widespread view. I’ve literally never heard anyone - male or female - express that opinion.