AIBU to find a girl's comment about social media quite sad

[FelicityShagsWell]

I just heard the story on the radio about Kier Starmer wanting to tighten up access to social media for under 16s. A few sound bites from some children followed. One girl said it's unfair because there's nothing else to do. Am I unreasonable to find that utterly sad?

Except we don’t all live in areas where those things are easily accessible (or where they exist at all). Transport, money, working parents etc. are genuine barriers to a lot of the activities you’ve listed.

It’s great that your teens have that on their doorstep and that you’re able to finance it, but that’s just not reality for many people. When I was a teen my parents worked full time and weren’t available to take me anywhere. The majority of activities weren’t accessible by public transport and those that were cost a lot of money or were at times were it wasn’t possible to catch a bus there and back.

I’m not sure what’s “sad” about that.

It depends on how it is implemented
A VPN is typically used to change the apparent location, if you change to a country that has restrictions then you inherit those restrictions and also change the algorithms underlying data about you which can mean seeing content relating to that country (potentially in another language)

A VPN would grant an IP address within its remit, which can be another source of obstruction such as whether you have an IP address within a block managed by a mobile / internet provider or within a block managed by a VPN provider

Legislation will be directed to the social media providers, they will need to take reasonable steps, which of course could be bypassed with some effort. A child bypassing could let the provider off the hook or could be using a method that the provider should be taking into account

Steps were brought in for access to porn. Children will still be bypassing and accessing it, but internet providers and source sites should be taking reasonable action.
Parents also bear responsibility even if not legal liability

ID on apple accounts is one example, it’s not a legal requirement in every country, but a basic check has been put into place by Apple.
You may not be asked to verify your age with Apple if you have had an account for long enough and have the choice whether or not to provide proof of age - that may or may not impact on your use of services

They can get around it just by lying when they enter their date of birth. How do you think current under-13s get social media accounts? All that is happening is that the age limit is being raised from 13 to 16.

This - it’s crazy that people think clubs are accessible to all kids! It is not safe to walk through many towns after dusk! So many people don’t have enough money - some clubs may only be £5 a week but you still have to drive them there and if it’s sea cadets (for example) and they are at the canoe centre that week you have to drive them to the canoe centre. That could be another 20 mile round trip!

I asked earlier on this thread has any party said they will oppose this and a quick google came up with the answer.

Rupert Lowe has posted -

A Restore Britain Government will repeal Starmer's social media ban and let parents parent.

Also
Any attempt to impose mandatory Digital ID will be fully repealed, scrapped and eradicated by a Restore Britain Government.

Edited to add - Just saw that Farage has also posted-

Whilst the social media ban is well-intentioned, it’s unlikely to work given the mass adoption of VPNs. It will also mean the introduction of Digital ID via the back door. The real answer here is handsets for children with limited features.

Watch the kids move to the right.

But it gives the parents an excuse not to buy a smart phone for their children.

You will eventually need to enter digital ID. I believe that is the real reason for this. They will say kids are bypassing it so we all need to give our digi id to log in. Then they can see what you are posting and looking at.

Now even if you don’t mind Labour watching what you are doing on line - can you be sure you will be happy with future governments having access to that? Had Biden introduced it would you be happy with Trump accessing it?

I just think all of this is mad. Absolute madness.

Parents could always have monitored their child’s social media and screen use.

They didn’t have to be allowed to have 9+ hours a day of social media time, or have access to unchecked accounts that didn’t have adult oversight.

It’s all well and good Rupert Lowe saying “let parents parent,” evidently not all of them are to begin with.

Same.

I read and re-read books in the house- and watch too much TV and did school work - and post 16 did find work. Parenst didn't let us hang around on street corners and they put it. Couldn't even get to local libabry as neede lift or bus money to nearest town it was in. It wasn't an action packed feast of activity.

I think many miss that a lot of these activites listed aren't free - and may be cheap for them but may not be for families with tighter budgets and perhaps less time or transport. Kids also tend to play out less and teens in groups often enocunter hostility.

Having said that our kids have greater access to hobbies inside house - and as PP often seen on you tube first- and kindle full of books and outside access to green spaces and libraries - we live outskirts of city. We choose to live there as our rural upbringingg in 80s- and teen 90s were not great for things to do.

It's again a parenting issue living in area with stuff to do or providing something in some form- though I'd say amount of time on phones and what kids are doing on them is also a parenting issue.

They could always have said no.

TBH I think banning social media is better than banning smart phones as so much public transport roudn here relies on tickets and timetables via apps - so at least teens getting around themsleves still have access to those.

There are plenty of things kids can do apart from social media. Too many people are far too quick to complain that there’s nothing to do. Kids found things to do before social media was invented. There are ways around things for most people (perhaps not all). Even small villages tend to have at least one or two things for kids to do (sport etc). If children have friends, there is more often than not parents who could give lifts to others and are happy to share lifts. This may not apply to every single child, but I think the vast majority of parents could find a way of their children doing things other than scrolling on phones. There are lots of free and low cost things for children to do. Local selling/giving sites (ironically often on social media) often have bikes or sewing machines, for example, being sold cheaply or given away. Parents and children need to use their imagination to find things to fill their time.

We have a local sports team which is offering coaching and a shirt, and works out about £1 a week. There are still local children moaning about being bored and spending their evenings on social media.

Im not sure how I feel about this really, it feels like a punishment to those who use it sensibly. Mine have always had screen time locks and downtime set up.
They have to get approval from me or my husband for any app they want to download therefore they dont have access to social media apps until we think they are appropriate. Its always been a discussion with our children on appropriate usage and behaviour.
My children attend alot of extra curricular activities so phone time is used sensibly as down time like many adults not as the 'activity' however I do think telling children to fill thier time with clubs ect isn't always viable. They are expensive and time consuming for adults.
As for just go outside and hang out with friends that wouldn't be possible for one of my children who attends school with children who live over an hour away from each other. They chat over the phone instead via video calls.
I think realistically the right thing to do would be to have a child account linked to an adult and set screen limits.

To be honest I think it’s better to look for the solutions to the ‘there’s nothing else to do’ problem than to just complain about the ban. Obviously finding ways to get around the ban might be the solution for some families.
For others… my teen doesn’t have social media and this is some of the stuff she does at home.
If you can pick up a cheap second hand kindle there are loads of apps where you can get unlimited free books (our local physical library closed down, sadly). She also likes to cook for the family, which gives her something productive to do in the evenings. She really enjoys looking up recipes and trying to cook new dishes. She has also recently taught herself to crochet on YouTube and is making a blanket for her grandmother for her birthday.
We picked up a second hand netball hoop for the garden and her and her sister spend a long time playing out there. They play football together too, either in the garden or at a patch of grass near our house.
She likes to draw and uses books like ‘Draw with Rob’ to help.
She has friends round a fair bit, they mainly hang out in her room listening to music and chatting. They also look up hairstyle tutorials and practice them on themselves and each other.
Then of course there is TV! Films/tv programmes etc will still be accessible.
I know I’m going to get an onslaught of people telling me why those things aren’t possible for their child, and I know some people don’t have gardens/ovens etc, but I just thought I’d give some ideas.

I agree not all parents parent. With this SM ban those bad parents will just log in for their kid or their older sibling will.

It will stop nothing except kids will then look at their mates phone (whose parents give their log ins) and good parents will not be able to use parental controls to see what their own kid is accessing! If the child is looking at Dave’s phone whose parents give him free reign they are unlikely to tell you as you may stop them hanging about with Dave. And then they only get to see what Dave shows them. If it’s misinformation you can’t even discuss as you aren’t aware.

Maybe the government could start looking after kids by ensuring men caught with child sex abuse images on their hard drive get 20 years inside rather than a slap in the wrist.

Plus kids don’t care about parents parenting they will just vote at 16 for a party that lifts the ban. And at present that’s Reform or Restore.

Just this past weekend I took my toddler to a playground and observed a group of 8 children around 10-11yo ALL on their phones for an hour and a half, doomscrolling and showing videos to each other. Interrupted by short periods of play, only to be back on their phones moments later.

I’m sure that’s not how parents want them to use their phones, but that’s what it looks like when you leave it up to tweens and teens to ‘be sensible’.

You can’t compare this with watching daytime TV or endlessly reading books to kill the boredom (how is this even in the same
ballpatk as SM??) I watched a lot of TV when growing up but it was limited and I didn’t have it in my room or outside when meeting friends, talking, finding things to do. It wasn’t personalised to target my biggest fears, it didn’t bully or endanger me as a child. I’m dumbfounded as to why that difference isn’t absolutely obvious to everyone complaining about their boring childhood.

I’m 46. At 16 I was out at illegal raves taking copious amounts of drugs that could well have killed me. I stopped riding a bike when I was about 10. I don’t think under 16s is an appropriate age boundary for them to be looking at. The government would far be better taking the NI age down to 14 so “kids” can earn money rather than fumble around on the streets or feel the need to be on SM in the first place.

This world has moved on unfortunately youth clubs are a thing of the past, sport has been made mostly unaffordable, kids can’t work, parents don’t want their kids out socialising outside because it’s not safe and they don’t want herds of other peoples kids socialising at their houses.

Schools certainly don’t help things ours has a no SM policy yet and now a no mobile phone policy except in lessons for research. It’s like everywhere teenagers go they get different sets of boundaries.

The Campaign to ban has been led my parents of bereaved children which is just utterly awful but… cyber bullying or bullying in person it’s still going to exist. I feel the ban is just a tick box Kier Starmer needs some votes exercise - it’s unenforceable and as one of these parents have rightfully said “sledgehammer techniques like bans” only cause more problems.

Is sport ’mostly unaffordable’? We live in a large village in the East Midlands, certainly no bustling metropolis. My daughter plays football, it’s £15 per month subs (not free, but less per year than an iPhone or iPad for example!). They have a boot swapping scheme so there are always free boots available in the next size up. The local rugby club does similar. I know not everywhere will have the same thing, but it’s always worth researching what’s around.

My main fear about what our government are doing, is that it will allow them to act like they’ve solved the problem and move on. There are so many ways around this. kids will still access social media and it removes our ability to talk about safe social media use in the school I work at. Therefore, some children will be less safe.

Even the father of a child who died after copying a social
media trend has said the KS hasn’t got it right.

Many areas have affordable sport. In addition to what you’ve mentioned, there are often football and cricket clubs at low or minimal cost. Parents just need to look at what’s being offered rather than assuming it’s too expensive or inconvenient. Even where there is a cost, there are often initiatives for low income families which removes the cost barrier.

My old primary school teacher used to say that it was good to be bored - which I never understood as a young child, but do now.

Going to a few clubs is fine and beneficial, but children and teens need to learn to occupy themselves and not have everything laid out for them. Where’s their imagination? Their internal lives? Their curiosity? Their thirst for knowledge?

Like that girl in the OP who had nothing to do, they get that way because of their upbringing and society too. I see far too many parents pushing a buggy with a toddler in and completely ignoring them while they FaceTime friends about crap or mindlessly scroll through their phones. They should be interacting with their child, showing them things, asking them questions, and so on. As that child gets older, they’ll be given their own thought-numbing iPad or phone so the parents can scroll through crap in peace.

No wonder they think there’s nothing to do!

I’d ban smart phones for under 16s entirely.

It is sad. It's sad we've made teenagers unwelcome everywhere, and demanded younger children always to have an adult with them in public until the age of at least 12 it seems, while for most families both parents have to work. Not conducive to creating opportunities for active fun for kids or teens

Totally agree that kids need to be bored sometimes. It gives time for their brain to rest and take in their surroundings. For example, on long car journeys, the default entertainment is too often iPads. What’s wrong with a few card games or looking out the window and seeing different things?! Or talking?!

My 14 yo boy is unbothered by the news, he doesn't really engage in social media other than communicating with friends who he knows in real life. If they couldn't use whatsapp or snapchat for chats, they'll just shift onto text messaging. I recently got him on pinterest so we had a shared board for his bedroom decorating ideas. The stuff he watches on YouTube is about weird historical facts, engineering feats, sports stats and funny videos. I do check in but he's also really open about his phone use.

He's got a really healthy social life outside of his phone with various groups from a mix of different local schools through sports, scouting, music, school. So when I asked what he thought about the ban he just shrugged and said he didn't really mind.

It is sad that someone would think there's nothing else to life than social media. I mean, I use it a lot and would be sad to lose the contact I have with friends, the creative projects my socials help with, ideas for meals and days out and travel and festivals and clothes but then I've curated quite a wholesome helpful and silly algorithm.

My other two are over 16.

It is sad. It's sad we've made teenagers unwelcome everywhere, and demanded younger children always to have an adult with them in public until the age of at least 12 it seems, while for most families both parents have to work. Not conducive to creating opportunities for active fun for kids or teens

Don't forget your tinfoil hat.

You can’t say - there’s loads to do where we live and there loads of school clubs at my child’s school.
DDs primary did very very few clubs, and those would only run for a few weeks.
Outside of school I really struggled to find things for DD that wasn’t bloody football. Same in the summer holidays, the summer clubs were 90% football.
Lots of teenagers, especially girls don’t want to do sports. It would have been my idea of hell and I love exercise, sports are awful though.
Maybe more should be put into making sure there are accessible activities for children.