Boris, Farage and Gove re Brexit-“Never have so few done so much damage to so many with so little ability to execute what they lied about.”

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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-heseltine-farage-boris-johnson-uk-eu-b2994030.html

All so silent. They should hang their heads in shame, surely be publicly be made to take ownership for what they did and be held to account.Cowards, the lot of them.

And surely it’s time we tried to right the wrongs of Brexit.

Some of Farage’s lies;-

The £350 Million NHS Pledge: Farage and the broader Leave campaign famously promoted the promise that leaving the EU would free up £350 million a week to be spent on the NHS.This figure did not account for the UK's EU budget rebate or the money that flowed back to the UK from EU spending.Shortly after the referendum, Farage admitted that the £350 million figure was a "mistake" and conceded there was no guarantee the money would go to the NHS.
Immigration & Border Control: He claimed that leaving the EU would directly resolve the UK's immigration issues and grant the country total control of its borders. In reality, post-Brexit immigration numbers soared to record highs in subsequent years.
The Imminent Threat of Turkish EU Membership: Farage and campaigns aligned with him warned that Turkey was on the verge of joining the EU, which would lead to millions of Turkish citizens flooding the UK. Turkey's EU accession was not imminent, and the UK held an effective veto over any new country joining the bloc.
Easy Post-Brexit Trade Deals: During the campaign, Farage and other Leave proponents argued that negotiating a free-trade deal with the EU—and other nations globally—would be "the easiest thing in human history". The reality proved to be vastly more complex and economically challenging, resulting in significant friction and increased administrative costs for UK-EU trade.

There’s a two part documentary on Brexit on iPlayer at the moment. The final part before the credits roll at the end of part two is Johnson saying the day after the referendum “There is no plan. There was never a plan”.

He was disingenuous in stating that the EU foisted laws upon the UK. If he'd attended more often, he'd know that there needed to have been a unanimous vote for any law to have been applied, so even him voting against any proposal would have been enough to stop it, if he'd been there.

Nonsense, if that were true, single representatives from UKIP/Brexit Party and all sorts of other parties across the EU would have blocked thousands of laws. They would never get anything done. The votes Farage was involved in would have been based around simple majority voting.

The UK did have a veto (unanimity voting) in a very limited number of specific policy areas in the Council of the European Union, but that very limited power was in the hands of cabinet ministers and heads of government. Some interesting links here;

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/council-eu/how-does-the-council-vote/

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2019/mar/29/landmarks-in-law-the-90s-fishing-case-that-stoked-uk-euroscepticism

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/primacy-of-eu-law-precedence-supremacy.html

You were right @Asperula. ☺️

Boom here she is! There’s a surprise.

Nothing to say re his lies then. 😏

There’s a two part documentary on Brexit on iPlayer at the moment

I really enjoyed watching that two part documentary! Boris Johnson was so amusing all round.

Interesting to see Johnson's ex-wife being interviewed. I did post some years ago that I thought Marina Wheeler (a QC who specialises in public law, including human rights law, with a Master's Degree in EU law) was probably the person who persuaded him to back leave.

his/her

her

Nice you think the huge amount of damage Boris has done is amusing. Says it all really.

And it was Gove who persuaded Boris to vote leave anyway.

Wheeler certainly contributed.

Johnson's interview was amusing. I thought the documentary was going to be a hatchet-job on the leave campaign - it wasn't like that at all. It was upbeat and enjoyable to watch. Jeremy Corbyn made me laugh as well - he was a caricature of stubbornness.

It’s a tragic tale, nothing about it is humorous. Some of us have children that will be forever impacted.

For everything important, a unanimous vote was required:
Foreign policy
EU expansion
Taxation
Budget
Treaty changes

For everything else QMV was possible.

Farage wouldn't know though as he didnt turn up for 80% of the votes.

If you think that wasn’t a hatchet job on the leave campaign you must have watched a different programme to me. Especially the last 30 seconds.

It’s a tragic tale, nothing about it is humorous.

Have you watched the documentary?

I enjoyed the documentary so much, I watched the first episode twice - I plan to watch the second episode again when I get the chance.

The whole subject is too depressing.

A remainer writes…

I voted against leaving. I would vote to rejoin, assuming the terms were reasonable (‘reasonable’ would include adopting the Euro).

Even so, I was and am in that big group of broadly but critically pro-membership voters.

But I marvel at the weird obsessiveness of the most ardent pro-EU frothers. Surely you can see that people had some basis for being unhappy with the EU? Plenty of current EU citizens are doubtful about the EU.

The one unspoken stumbling block we may face is that if we withdraw from the ECHR - which looks more or less inevitable now, and the true benefits for doing so have nothing to do with immigration control - we will be ruled out as EU members unless the EU changes its foundational treaties to avoid the need for Euro Council membership.

You’re wise not to watch it. It made me very angry.

Not fishing then.

Farage wouldn't know though as he didn't turn up for 80% of the votes

Different set of votes - UKIP claim they sent a substitute voter to the committees anyway. In the European Parliament, there were over 600 MEPs - his vote there wouldn't count for much on his own.

His vote doesn’t count for much in the Commons, presumably that’s why he’s never there.

Don't worry, if he ever becomes prime minister, he'll probably be just as present as Keir Starmer. And just as annoying.

What is it with fishing and Brexit? The fishing policy was established ages ago, and the UK voted for it at the time. The fishing industry did itself more damage by leaving the EU than by staying in, so fishing is a non argument.

Different set of votes - UKIP claim they sent a substitute voter to the committees anyway

They claim that, but it isn't true.

There were indeed 600 MEPs. To be honest, I didn't not realise the importance of the MEP. I concentrated on the UK MPs. Turns out voting for the correct MEP was a very important thing to do.

The original point was whether he should hang his head in shame, and I still think he should. The only thing he is good at, and I have to credit him with this, is making the incredible sound so very credible. He is a genius at that. Starmer could learn a lot from him.

What is it with fishing and Brexit?

Farage was on the fishing committee - I assumed you were talking about his votes there.

Also, from one of my links up thread;

Landmarks in law: the 90s fishing case that stoked UK Euroscepticism

Before Factortame, some UK politicians hadn’t fully grasped the power of EU law over parliament

I think my point about Farage being so anti EU in general was more along the lines of how would he know if he wasn't ever there? Surely if one is to form an opinion about something, one has to be part of it. I can sit at home quite happily and form opinions about a great many things, however my opinion isn't very valid if I haven't ever taken part in any of those things. I could advise about what team Arsenal should field next year, but I've never been to a football match, so what would my opinion be worth?

I have yet to hear any substantive evidence for any of his criticisms of the EU. Nor any evidence from any credible economic analyst that leaving was beneficial for the UK. Undoubtedly Covid and the Ukraine was have muddied the waters, as the Iran situation is doing now, but as the Independant article pointed out, there hasn't been a mass delivery of all the purported benefits. Farage was in it purely for his own personal gain / fun / whatever.

About the only good he is bringing is the potential end to bipartisan politics in this country and giving the two main parties in that bipartisan system a good kick up the arse. Maybe that is a good thing. It is certainly full of risk for the electorate.