Boris, Farage and Gove re Brexit-“Never have so few done so much damage to so many with so little ability to execute what they lied about.”

[Gkei737djdh]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-heseltine-farage-boris-johnson-uk-eu-b2994030.html

All so silent. They should hang their heads in shame, surely be publicly be made to take ownership for what they did and be held to account.Cowards, the lot of them.

And surely it’s time we tried to right the wrongs of Brexit.

Please can someone tell me or so me actual evidence, not estimates suggest, think tanks estimates etc, which can strip out the damage done from covid, the war in Ukraine, the war Iran, these incidents would have effected us wether in the EU or not,
please show workings that definitely show that it was caused by Brexit and not by the external influences

I'm interested in understanding why you seem so eager to brush this monumental fuck-up under the carpet. As a nation, do you not think it is important for us to collectively reflect on what went so horribly wrong and how so many of the electorate were manipulated into voting against their own interests? Would it not make more sense for the nation to learn from its mistakes so that the electorate can make better decisions in the future?

As unphased posted above, can you provide me figures for this 'fuck up', having stripped out the effects of other world events?

So, no, I don't think that there should be reflection on this, especially as this 'reflection' comes couched in fairly vile language from other posters. To be honest, you come across as 'if we explained to all these people how wrong they were, they would be bound to agree with us (then put on their hair shirts)'. What happens if they still disagree with you? You know, being autonomous human being and all?

I thought it was David Cameron who gave the vote to British people, and the British people voted 52% leave. Whatever you or I think, the majority voted to leave.

David Cameron threw his toys out of the pram cos he misread the mood of the country, (same as is happening now), and resigned (Keir won’t resign)

Why should Farage hold his head in shame? He has always sang the same tune.

Boris didn’t have any balls whilst in power, plenty of bravado in his few inches in a weekly rag, but when it came to anything he “spaffed” it up the wall!

I think Keir is taking this country further to the right than any of the right wingers would have dreamed of.

It's not the difference in political opinions that's the rub. And never has been. Only the more credulous would suggest that.

It's far more nuanced than that ...

What happens if they still disagree with me?

Well, surely in that scenario, those who still disagree will be able to counter my perspective with reasoned arguments and solid evidence of the various ways in which they believe that Brexit has benefited the UK, and they will be able to articulate exactly why they think we're better off now despite the massive hit to our economy, as per the assessment of the OBR and other independent sources?

The fact that the Brexiteers seem more eager to shut the discussion down rather than highlight how they believe we have all benefited leads me to draw my own conclusions.

A previous Government report outlines some world-trading benefits of Brexit. However, the sad truth is that other world events, like the Covid Crisis, took focus away from our political leaders who had to pay lip service to the result of the referendum, but had no personal belief in nor desire to truly 'get Brexit done'. Hence we've been left in an utter mess, having 'leaders' who have no love of Great Britain and its peoples, but only want to lead their own climb up the greasy pole of power.

The Brexit deal that we ended up with was agreed by Boris Johnson - one of the leading voices of the Brexit campaign and probably the most influential.

It's quite striking that you think that even the chief architects of Brexit didn't actually personally believe in it.

As you say, they were perhaps more concerned with their own personal ambition, and hence the Leave campaign led the electorate into making a decision that was disastrous for the country but probably lined their own pockets quite nicely.

Well, surely in that scenario, those who still disagree will be able to counter my perspective with reasoned arguments and solid evidence of the various ways in which they believe that Brexit has benefited the UK, and they will be able to articulate exactly why they think we're better off now despite the massive hit to our economy, as per the assessment of the OBR and other independent sources?
But, as we're living in the real world, why do they have to? What are you going to do if you think their arguments don't come up to scratch?

The fact that the Brexiteers seem more eager to shut the discussion down rather than highlight how they believe we have all benefited leads me to draw my own conclusions.
Good luck with that.
A- show me where i have supported Brexit
B- but just tell me a solid , real life, end game in all this

Well David Cameron gave every adult in this country a vote and more voted out than in.
we cannot belive 56 or whatever it was percent of the country are thick .they clearly are not .they just played on people's fear and apathy for Europe and they won like it or not more voted out and the Tories said they would abide by the vote .and if they didn't tory voters would have turned on them and they didn't want that . I can remember times before european influence everything was made here big manufacturers. Yes clothes and the likes were more expensive I grant that .but now it's just the cheapest foreign imports we can get .times have changed we moved into Europe and they tried to reset the clock but without massive investment it was never going to work .and while I didn't vote for it I just accept it's the democratic will of the people .so just get on with it .

Erm, if I don't think their arguments are up to sctratch, then I will explain why I don't think their case stacks up? That's kind of how political debate and discussion usually work?

I'm not entirely sure what "living in the real world" has to do with anything, but of course, nobody has to say why they think Brexit has been great for this country if they don't want to. However, the absence of voices that are willing and able to articulate the benefits of Brexit will inevitably lead people to the conclusion that they simply don't have much to say on the subject.

Those who feel that Brexit has been hugely damaging to our country do want to talk about it and it is our democratic right to do so. Those who disagree can choose to set out their reasons for disagreeing by telling us why they think Brexit has been a great success, or they can choose to ignore it and leave us to discuss it amongst ourselves. What they don't get to do is demand that we stop talking about it simply because the whole subject makes them feel a bit uncomfortable and they would rather pretend that it never happened.

I have no idea whether or not you have supported Brexit, and I don't really care. I do note, however, that you seem eager to shut down the discussion. I wonder why that is.

As for your question about a solid, real life end game? I'm not really sure what you mean. Are you asking people what they think we should do about Brexit now, or what?

No, discuss away (though the majority of the comments have only consisted of being foul about brexit voters) .
But it is undeniable that, whether Brexit was a success or not, it's done. There is no point in going on about it because it will never be reversed and the country has more pressing problems to deal with..
But hey, i'm not diverting anything, just questioning why posters are so engaged with something so pointless. I'm not stopping anyone else from indulging in the general wailing and gnashing of teeth.

The Brexit deal that we ended up with was agreed by Boris Johnson - one of the leading voices of the Brexit campaign and probably the most influential.

Weirdly, for the purposes of Brexiteers who feel they deserve a second biter of the cherry (apparently we have to re run Brexit until we get it right) the Boris Johnson "Get Brexit Done" government was actually a full on "remainer government"*. Which is not to say that their powers of intellect are somehow lacking, but now - even 6 years on - I cannot work that one one.

*This is raised on occasion in threads in the fading "Brexit" forum ....

Similarly, lockdown lasting months and months, after Boris Johnson frightened the public so much that it became politically impossible to ease restrictions when they might have done.

Never did so many have to sacrifice so much, for so few.

@ Fridgemanageress
“I think Keir is taking this country further to the right than any of the right wingers would have dreamed of.”
🤦‍♀️

I agree. We needed more people to die to free up housing.

You think it's pointless. Others think that there is value in discussing it and hope that something can be learnt from it.

If you aren't interested in the discussion or don't see the point of it, there are plenty of other threads available. Instead, you choose to join the discussion with pointless remarks about "remoaners".

Interesting that you are so concerned about others having what you deem to be "pointless" discussions about Brexit and yet that doesn't seem to prevent you from making utterly pointless comments of your own.

Yep. The same will happen in the US.
The USUK Maggat gang's puppet masters are the same, and pull on the same strings.

The US is much more suited to civil war than the US though. We rather lost the notion of "counties rights" during the Wars of the Roses.

Why should Farage hold his head in shame? He has always sang the same tune.

This is true, he did sing the same tune. But why? Was it for the good of the British people? No. Was it for his own ends? Yes.

How would he know that the EU was a good or a bad thing? He rarely went to any meetings.

He was disingenuous in stating that the EU foisted laws upon the UK. If he'd attended more often, he'd know that there needed to have been a unanimous vote for any law to have been applied, so even him voting against any proposal would have been enough to stop it, if he'd been there.

He would also have known that the UK had one of the lowest rates of acceptance of migrants and that there were even more options available that the prevailing government chose not to leverage, had he been there.

And why didn't he step up with his plan to say "Right everyone, we've won, here's what we do." But he didn't have one because he's just a disruptor without a plan any further than "this might do me some good".

Oh, and you'll note that he collects his £73k EU pension and didn't say anything along the lines of "I didn't agree with the EU, so I shall pass on the pension that I get without ever really having attended".

That's why he should hang his head in shame. Oh. Along with all the other bullshit of why leaving would be so good.

Brexit was a disaster, and many of those who championed it have since moved on to lucrative careers outside politics, while the rest of us continue to deal with the consequences.

My main concern is that we don't seem to have learned much from the experience. One of Brexit's principal architects, Farage, now stands a realistic chance of leading the country, and that should give Brexiteer's/his fans pause for thought but it won't ...

How would he know that the EU was a good or a bad thing? He rarely went to any meetings.

And collect his EU pension.

You're not suggesting they don't think, I hope ?

I wanted to do that 😀

Farage should hang his head in shame because he lied and left it to others to clear up the shite he caused by lies.