To run a cub scout camp

[Scoutleader01809]

I am a man without children in his 20s but my mum said it's ok for me to ask questions here so here goes.

I have been a Cub (8-10 boys and girls) scout leader for about 10 years, running a week-long camp in the summer, less than an hour drive away from home, for those 10 years minus Covid. Past few years have become harder and harder to get signups.

I have great memories and experiences from camps I did at that age and older, every year the kids enjoy themselves on camp. It's hugely shaped me to become the adult I am today and most of my freinds are people I went to scouts with. I honestly believe scouting is a great organisation for teaching kids resilience and independence, and that's why I give up 5+ hours a week to scouting.

This year in particular has been a nightmare, almost none of the parents want to send their kids, camp is about £200 but it's an affluent area, we offer discounts to those who need so I doubt it's the cost. Some are genuinely on holiday but a lot of them genuinely insist it's to much for their child often telling me about how 20 years ago in brownies they didn't enjoy camping or that they would miss their child (am I wrong to think that they shouldn't worry about whether they will miss their child but only whether their child will have a good time?).

I hear about a lot of groups who have trouble running overnights and assumed their leaders were the probelm but now starting to question if that's just the parents of today.

I have a WhatsAppgroup with the parents and put photos in of the kids everyday enjoying themselves, I had to make it admins only a few years ago when the parents ask stupid questions like why does my child look tired, why are they wearing a jumper, I now get those questions in DM.

The kids sleep in canvas tents, sing campfire songs, do activities like archery and kayaking, play in the woods, I can't get how being on a screen or sitting bored in holiday camp is even remotely comparable.

I might cancel the camp, I might suffer through the 5 parents who have 'volunteered to help' to come along as a condition to their children attending then just stop running longer camps and only do 1 or 2 night camps. Ultimately, they're less prepared for longer scout and explorer camps, and it's a spiral until you get 18-year-olds unready to go to university.

I don't get it, I know I don't have kids and maybe I will feel different if/ when I do but I don't feel I am a bad person for suggesting their children would benefit from some experiences away from their parents.

YABU- You're the pied piper of hamelin
YANBU- Parents are being to precious and camp sounds great

You are not owed the parents wanting to send their children with you though.
I would never send my 8 year old away for an almost week with someone they met once a week. Clearly many parents agree which is why uptake is so low. Perhaps look at your own strategy rather than lashing out and blaming the parents.

OP thinks parents are being precious about sending 8 year olds away for only 5 nights but asked his mummy whether he should post mumsnet. Make it make sense.

How weird

This is not my experience of cub scouts children

I think its great that you give your time to scouting , and sure its appreciated by all involved.

My son joined as a scout and now an explorer, its been great for him, and he has loved the camps but think the longest his group offers is 3 nights. Poacher will be is first long one. They do 4 weekends a year.

Although I'd make it less than a week I have to say....

Beaver leader here and mum to a cub (and a beaver and Squirrel...). My cub has recently just done a weekend (2 nights) which seemed enough tbh and cost £40 although I appreciate you may be in a fancier area. I was also a scout (in the late 90s) and did week long stays but my son who's 8 was pretty wiped after 3 days (2 nights) full on activities. I'd rethink the length tbh and rein in the cost. Good for you though for being thoughtful though. Its a thankless task more often than not. If it weren't for my scout leader back in the day and my eldest being a mini explorer I would never have signed up. I too am very much of the mind that without scouts I'd be a very different person. Would also love if parents appreciated the impact (although I dont expect any gratitude its often overlooked as cheap babysitting)

I'm just trying to recall the camp schedule from when I did it. I think we used to do a 1-2 nighter that was a county camp for the eldest cubs and the youngest scouts in about late September time. a 1 nighter end of October that was always absolutely freezing, a spring camp during the may bank holiday, again usually 2 nights and then a summer camp during the summer holidays which was 2 or 3 nights.

As leaders we often went down the night before and pitched the cooking tents and our own tents so we could have a night "off" as well, and then the kids could arrive early on the Saturday morning for one night camps. Get tents pitched and usually keep them til late afternoon the next day for the shorter camps.

I think most of the the point of it (at that age) is the tent pitching and the washing up and the camp fire etc. Add in some orienteering in a field and a bit of archery and everyone's had a great weekend.

I think it's really important to remember that the aim of cubs is for them to have fun and then for them to want to go to scouts, really. So it's about preparing them and readying them for that - can they do a few knots, not throw themselves into a camp fire, get their tent up with adult supervision, keep their sleeping bag successfully inside their tent (we still used the old fashioned tents rather than "hike tents"), get to sleep without mum and dad there, manage to go to the loo in the night, eat unfamiliar food. That's the entire point of camps in cubs.

thanks

Too long. Too expensive. I've been involved with Scouting for nearly 20 years and camps are never more than 3 nights / £75. The only one that was a week was overseas Kandersteg. This weekend is Explorers camp. Two nights £10 although at that age they are pretty self sufficient.

Before I forget THANK YOU for volunteering!

Basic fee is £300. Your own group will be adding costs for food, gas, transport, gala tent hire if applicable, etc. We're charging £400 but we don't need to hire any kit, just a van to transport it all, and we're not arranging transport for the kids themselves.

Makes me realise how spoilt we were at my group - we had our own big tents, trailers to transport everything, I think we basically had all the kit. We actually used to raise money lending the big tent out for weddings and community events.

our scout group charges 400+ for a summer camp, some of our explorers spent 4000 to go to south korea, so it never felt to much compared to them but maybe these days the money is a lot

But the comparison to South Korea is irrelevant as totally different experiences and expectations re self funded fundraising and sponsorship for example. £400 for summer camp in the UK is wild. We live in a ok area economically and few would pay that.

It says £300 on the website that’s what we’ve paid……. We’re only in Nottingham tho so no transport we’re driving the kids as it is Lincoln so only 45-60 mins away and they’ve been fundraising for food.

I’m a volunteer for scouts too (although in another country so different names etc).

The longest we take the kids away is 4 days, and that’s for the national camp. They tried to extend it to 5 days this year, parents voted no.

It’s €45 for the camp itself, and €30-40 for food. We fundraise during the year to cover transport (3-4k for a big bus for us all), and some parents volunteer to be the cooks, transport the kit in their vans, etc.

No child pays more than 100, basically. We also run some weekend only camps and they’re intense - but then, we’re also in a culture where activities can easily run until midnight. So I don’t recognise your description of shorter camps - by the time we put the tents up, the fun has only just started. It’s an almost uninterrupted 36-48h of fun, even for shorter camps.

As others have said it’s the length of time. Probably not the cost of you’re in an affluent area. Your fellow leaders have told you it’s too long. Parents here have told you it’s too long. Just own up - you were wrong!

A week is too long.

People are funny about sleepovers these days.

£200 is cheap for the camp but it's still a lot of money out of a family budget. Especially if there's more than one child to pay for and 7 weeks of childcare to pay for.

I was a scout, DH was a scout. I was a brownie and guide leader, DH is a scout leader.

We went away for 2 week jamboree and scout camps as kids but DH is bringing our sons troop away for 3 days.

I did 4 nights 5 days with guides.

DD did one 2 week camp a while back and loved it but times have definitely changed.

As a former guide and a kid who went away to do PGL holidays week-long at 8, I’ll be honest and say that I really didn’t like going for a week at that age. I think my parents were trying to give me lots of opportunities, but I missed them and it was too much, but I never said anything. One of the camps was over my birthday and I really hated it.

All of my children loved Cub and Scout camp and I'd sign them up to anything going!. Thank you for volunteering and the time you give up to this! Cubs and Scouts offer fantastic outdoor experiences and I'm sure you are a great role model for them.

Thinking back, our Cub camp might have been around 3 mights and Scout camp up to 7 nights. One bi-annual Scout trip was abroad for about 6 nights and included flights. They also attended the huge 'Poacher' camp at Lincoln.

Our village primary school did residential trips every year from Year 2 though. By years 5 and 6 they were doing 4 night school trips, Monday to Friday. So both children and parents were very used to residential sfrom school. Perhsps that's changed for many schools after Covid, or with the CoL?

I would also be wary of thinking higher cost trips are ok because it's an 'affluent' area. It's great that you have support for those who need it but not everyone will ask.

One thing our leader did was cost the trip to include the minibus, fuel, camp fees, food etc. The parents paid that basic cost. But if the group wanted say an afternoon canoeing or climbing as a highlight of the trip, the Scouts would fund-raise for that as a group.

I think the price is good for a whole week. My 9 year old daughter did a PGL weekend with brownies not long ago. The price wasn’t far off and 2 nights was a good length of time for her and she loved it. They fundraised a bit to top up as a group. I think it’s the length of time you’re offering that’s putting the cubs/parents off. It’s great you’re doing it.

Some parents told me it was too long, a lot of leaders older than me told me it was too short (5 days instead of 7 when I was child) and that the kids enjoy it so what's the probelm. I am going to get double complaints if I cut it down to a weekend camp next year. It's not something that I started from scratch.

I am hearing and accepting the wisdom of the crowd says that maybe 2 nights is just all that we should be doing and I will get through this camp and then next year move to a weekend.

I'd say shorter but more frequent.

And please don't be disheartened. All of us other leaders know how much work you put in, and how frustrating it can be when parents don't seem to engage with or appreciate it.

If you're only in your twenties, this is hardly a lifetime of service.

I think your attitude is actually quite childish, your arguement seems to be 'if they don't want to do it how I want then why bother, they can all stay home and watch screens cause 'today's parents' are all helicopters.'

There's a whole lot more nuance here.

£200 is a lot - you can get a week of 9-5 multi-activity holiday club for a lot less than that.

I think kids need a gradual acclimatisation for overnights and a cub's first camp away should be in a bunkhouse-type place rather than under canvas, and for no more than 2 nights, with 4 nights under canvas as the next thing they do having enjoyed the first one. Do alternate years mini-camp and big camp.

You'll always get low takeup during the summer. Try doing it at Easter or May Half Term