"Race-based pogrom" and "huge act of self-harm by mindless idiots who are actually only damaging their own futures".

[Batmanisaplaceinturkey]

Northern Ireland's First Minister Michelle O'Neill says "groups of masked men" were "burning families out of their homes"

One pastor in north Belfast says black people's homes were targeted, while an MP tells the BBC there was a "race-based pogrom"

The PSNI Chief Constable Jon Boutcher says the violent disorder in Belfast was a "huge act of self-harm by mindless idiots who are actually only damaging their own futures".

I agree with all the quotes. Sick of mindless racist thugs and their 'protests', where they look like they are enjoying themselves while they commit violence and set fire to things.

I think the UK used to be tolerant of a multiracial society.

That’s the society I grew up in. But there seems a lot less tolerance now, partly because of problems in society that people rightly or wrongly attribute to mass immigration or illegal immigration.

Brexit changed the demographic of immigrants.

I agree on this: that many people don't realise what the worst outcomes of all the unrest could be. I suspect people in Belfast are well aware, but not so many in Britain which hasn't had organised civil violence in a very long time.

That said, in NI only the IRA ever had anything like the capacity for a systematic campaign. I'm not at all persuaded that underneath the febrile anti-immigration rhetoric there is anything like a politically coherent, disciplined, well-resourced organisation, and I think that's a prerequisite for violent conflict (though not for extreme but sporadic violence).

There's no need to bring in the complexities of different identities in order to reference Northern Ireland or Northern Irish people. Use the clear, specific terms: 'Northern Ireland' and 'Northern Irish'. (handy abbreviation: NI).

You muddy it by using 'Ireland' or 'Irish', which references a country and people,not in Northern Ireland (or GB or UK), in addition to quite possibly annoying some Northern Irish people who might not like to be called Irish, when they see themselves as British.

Who in Northern Ireland identifies as what is a whole other level of discussion.

There are Irish people in and from NI. Not as a matter of identity but as a matter of fact. Not everyone from NI is ok with being called Northern Irish, because some of them are just Irish.

Ireland existed as an island nation until 1921. A large minority of the population of what became "Northern Ireland" has since consistently registered its opposition to partition and the civil rights infringements arising from it. Ireland is very much a single 32 county country historically and in many ways culturally too, and the movement to reunify it is gaining ground all the time. Being adamant about the "separate countries" thing doesn't make any sense, when this will soon have been a provisional, unsuccessful and very short lived partition.

The waters very much are muddy and oversimplification is offensive.

Oh I disagree @Puffinsandcoffee , there is absolutely well resourced organisations behind this. Throughout Europe far right figure heads in loads of countries are posting misinformation about the crime that kicked it off.

Musk via X and Grok has been fuelling this as well. He’s funded reform and now he’s focused on churning out disinformation that is fanning the flames of violence in N.I.

All these individuals and political parties have links with each other now. I don’t fully understand how it all works but it absolutely has money behind it and it is a co ordinated movement.

Yeah, that's true and pretty obvious now you say it!! Hadn't linked all that up tbh, was just "loyalists being loyalist" about it.

That said, funding in itself won't generate political coherence or discipline, both of which which I still think are essential for this to turn into a full scale conflict...?

Yes, very fair. I think we are still in the extreme sporadic violence stage and probably will be for some time.

Still, yesterday I noticed some degree of... admiration? for the organisation and opsec of the Belfast rioters, in what I've seen online (e.g. on X). I won't be surprised if the "mask up, wear black, no phones" idea catches on. But of course the infrastructure & institutions of a ruthless militia presumably require a lot more experience to set up from scratch...

@Gealach , I think there's clearly been an increase in coordination of media and information which is linked to X, and information/idea sharing such as I mentioned above, but to do physical violence, against the state, at scale, without informers, etc requires a level of "ground game" which I don't sense is there yet. Even if Elon Musk wanted to fund such a group, who would he fund? I could be wrong, of course!

I am well aware of the history, thanks and of people who are Irish. That isn't what this is about. It's simply about the use of language to make meaning clear. If what you argue were to prevail, no one could mention or discuss 'Northern Ireland' or 'Northern Irish' people because those terms are offensive to people who are Irish.

I am saying that that the term 'Northern Ireland' does exist and is in use as a descriptor, as does an entity with that name and that there are people in it and that you cannot refer to them with clarity by using the terms 'Ireland' or 'Irish' which refer to a country called 'Ireland' with people in it who are descriptively 'Irish'.

This does not mean that anyone who uses the terms 'Northern Ireland' or 'Northern Irish' is stating that Northern Irish people are not Irish, although some there would suggest it of themselves. It is not practical to say - and 'Northern Irish' people know this - in the course of ordinary discussion 'Northern Ireland-which-is-Irish- and-isn't- Ireland-Republic of- or-the-people-of- Republic of- but-has-Irish-people- and- has-people- who-say-they- are- not-Irish- but are-British- and- people-who-do-not-like-the-term-Northern-Ireland-or- because-of- history- plantation - the Rising- the- war- of independence- the-Government-of-Ireland-Act- 1920- the-Civil War- the- UVF.'

Ok. Didn't mean to upset you. Just, in the post I was responding to, you suggested that the term Northern Irish was clear and specific, when it's quite clearly neither. And you referred to the potential offence to the part of the population of NI from being called Irish so I thought it worth mentioning the other ones too, who's nationality and feelings about that are just as important.

Muddy waters is part of the fact of Ireland. Imposing artificial "clarity" is invariably reductive and usually erases the minority population's perspective i.e. that of the Irish people in the North. Given the stakes, I think attention to the complexity is worth the effort.

And @Abitofalark there are other options aside from Northern Ireland besides the silly one you made up. Almost all republicans and nationalists that I know, for example, call it "the North of Ireland". Whether it not you agree, "Northern Ireland" is a political and complex term, not a neutral or clarifying one.

The government changed the demographic of immigrants.

Well yes, the Government implemented brexit, it didn't happen by itself.

The government is solely responsible for immigration.
Brexit did not mean they had to let in a million immigrants.

Loyalist paramilitaries are well beyond the mask up, wear black, no phones stage, but they have always lacked - and the race riots also lack - a coherent political vision or aim that volunteers are collectively and individually committed too, and will stay committed to even when at huge personal cost including life imprisonment and death. So it's almost impossible to maintain the kind of discipline that prevents a movement disintegrating into factions motivated by self interest (and drug dealing will be inevitable), and that mitigates for the impact of informers. I think this is irrespective of funding and even some degree of expertise in organising paramilitary activity.

Maybe I'm wrong/ naive/ prejudiced, and in any case increasing sporadic extreme violence is a political danger anyway. But I am hopeful that the riot without a cause lot (other than racism) will be their own worst enemy.

I said that Brexit changed the demographics of immigration. I didn't mention numbers.

@OneAmberFinch I wouldn’t say that at all. We are seeing far right parties gain ground all over Europe. We’ve seen links with trump’s government and far right figures. Vance spoke at a far right event in Europe recently enough. We are seeing Russia link in with European far right parties with the aim of weakening EU integration.

There is also money coming from Russia funding more violent far right movements in Europe.

Yep. Racist Tommy Robinson has been very busy in Russia this week.

https://bylinetimes.com/2026/06/10/revealed-the-russian-neo-nazi-network-pushing-white-lives-matter-division-in-britain-promoted-by-tommy-robinson/

I live on a street like that, terraces that open out onto the pavement and it is very mixed area racially . I could really imagine how terrifying that must have been, men and boys just kicking doors in and setting places alight. I am white so I guess I would have been spared but my Pakistani Muslim neighbours with their lovely little children would have been at risk of having their home torched.

They were also burning out houses of white people so no guarantee you would be fine!
Ultimately while a lot of the agenda was racist thuggery ultimately the agenda was just thuggery in any form and they have been attacking houses with anyone in them, buses driven by anyone, cars driven by anyone.

Absolutely non white people had much to fear with them going door to door in sure, but everyone is at risk from these violent men.

Totally agree, "fine" was not the best word to use, I should have thought it through more. The whole thing is playing on my mind partly because it looks like where I live and the images of homes so like mine really brought it home.

The girls must be in their 30s now - the alleged offences took place 1985 to 2008.

No, I know what you mean I’m just saying don’t let mainland new make you think this is structured or with a clear agenda. While they are targeting homes they think immigrants might live in they are also burning out white local homes, and being violent pretty senselessly to anyone in addition!
They don’t care about their communities.

This is very scary, compiling a hit list of houses for months, so they were coordinated and ready to strike just waiting for the right moment. Chilling

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jun/11/police-warned-addresses-targeted-belfast-riots

It is clear and specific. That's the whole point: communication of meaning. It does refer to a particular entity and no other.

You are correct that I omitted to refer to 'both sides'. I realised that only afterwards and of course I didn't intend to mention one and not the other. It goes for both.

You are arguing about the politics and history. I am looking at the practicality (hence my example of the difficulty) of how to communicate what I am referring to. It is clear that in terms of communication 'Northern Ireland' is plainly what it is and that is what it is called. Why do you think it is used generally, including by the media and by all sorts of people in all sorts of daily life who live there (sometimes colloquial shorthand as Norn Iron) - not just a dominant majority? You don't like it, lots of people may not like it because of the history. I may not like it but it exists as a term for a political entity. I happen to think it is an awkward unduly longwinded handle for such a small entity and carries an unfortunate suggestion of an 'equivalent' 'Southern Ireland'.(Which is what was intended at one point in history but is grossly misleading as to comparability between Ireland and Northern Ireland.)