"Race-based pogrom" and "huge act of self-harm by mindless idiots who are actually only damaging their own futures".

[Batmanisaplaceinturkey]

Northern Ireland's First Minister Michelle O'Neill says "groups of masked men" were "burning families out of their homes"

One pastor in north Belfast says black people's homes were targeted, while an MP tells the BBC there was a "race-based pogrom"

The PSNI Chief Constable Jon Boutcher says the violent disorder in Belfast was a "huge act of self-harm by mindless idiots who are actually only damaging their own futures".

I agree with all the quotes. Sick of mindless racist thugs and their 'protests', where they look like they are enjoying themselves while they commit violence and set fire to things.

RTE news has a clip of a thug all in black with balaclava, strutting with a golf club over his shoulder. What appears to be a random guy faced up to him, and some women approached too. Thug turned tail and started moving away pretty fast when the women started striding towards him.

The community was basically saying to the thug, "get the feck out of here".

The people rioting don’t class themselves as Irish.

but yes, there is a segment of society in the Republic of Ireland who are also vehemently and violently anti immigration. There are links between far right groups in the republic (who ironically are calling themselves patriots) and loyalist groups in Northern Ireland and other British far right groups. So no this type of anti immigration sentiment isn’t exclusive to British people. But you don’t seem to understand you are talking about two different countries.

The Loyalist para militaries have long had connections with the extreme far right.
National Front,BNP,C18.
Daresay now it will be online groups.

well the loyalists don’t see themselves as Irish either. They aren’t Irish and they don’t want to be Irish. I don’t understand how that is confusing for you.

In fact aTHIRTY women have been murdered in Northern Ireland in the last 6 years.
Murdered by their partners, ex partners, husbands, sons and even grandsons.
What are the brave men out intimidating people in the streets and in their homes, so concerned about the safety of women, going to do to stop this tsunami of violence against women from white Irish/British men?
burn another bin or car outside the home of a Chinese finally? Torch another takeaway or barbers? Stop another nurse to ask why she’s ‘here’ because she isn’t white?

If you follow some of the SM for Belfast, Antrim and Newtownabbey it’s absolutely toxic.
Threats being made against people, demands that cameras and doorbell camera la are turned off, threats about what will happen to anyone helping the authorities in any way.

It’s confusing because I have no doubt if on another thread I repeated this, somebody would pipe up to tell me I’m being offensive and that ‘just because somebody is Protestant/loyalist, doesn’t mean they’re not Irish’. Then ‘being Protestant doesn’t make you a loyalist’ and at that point it all gets murky again.

I’m sorry but it is very confusing. I’ve done my best to explore this topic and improve my knowledge but whatever I’m told by one person, is then vehemently disagreed with by another. It’s probably only truly understood by people who grew up there.

I’m aware that it’s a common view that English people’s knowledge of NI is lacking, but it feels like whenever we try to improve it things get awkward very quickly and so it’s probably just best to avoid it.

I'm not from N Ireland but am aware of how the IRA,UVF,UDA ruled their communities with an iron fist how depressing the clocks being turned back .

30 women have been murdered by white Northern Irish men in the last 6 years, not a single protest was held, not a single road closed for a march, not even a bin tipped over in anger.

Tells you absolutely everything you need to know about the motives of the people now burning down innocent people's houses.

You haven’t read up on it enough @Walkyrie, which is fine, but maybe not the best idea to comment on threads like this then because you’re mixing things up.

Being Protestant doesn’t make you a loyalist by the way, though loyalists are themselves Protestant culturally. The loyalists are seen as very hardline, many are extremists, British not Irish. You can’t conflate the term Protestant with loyalist as you’ve been doing.

It's very likely that many of those brave men have been reported for domestic abuse themselves.

Just like the 2024 rioters.

This one of the ones jailed after the Southampton riots

Crawford has 19 convictions for 33 offences including battery, robbery, burglary and shoplifting.

On one occasion, he broke a partner's front teeth, punched her unconscious and when she woke up told her he had put bleach in her hair, the court is told.

More specific for Belfast

https://www.thedetail.tv/articles/almost-half-ni-race-rioters-reported-for-domestic-abuse

.

Ahhh but you see apparently because these are home grown rapists and murderers we just need to put up with it because they have a right to be here. Non white men however who commit these crimes do not. = ok to riot

Being Protestant doesn’t make you a loyalist. Certainly not. Even being a unionist doesn’t make you a loyalist.

In short Unionism in Northern Ireland is a political idea that supports N.I remaining part of the UK. Loyalism is like a hardline strand of unionism that is associated with paramilitarism.

I really don’t think someone is going to argue with you “just because someone is loyalist it doesn’t make them Irish” Loyalists raison d’etre is to oppose any steps towards unity with the republic and to keep a distinct cultural identity.

These are just race riots. You can argue that it’s connected with loyalist groups, but the ugly truth it’s just race hatred. And it has even less of the usual constraints on it than explicitly sectarian violence would. I think it’s to do with online radicalism, and we shouldn’t be so quick to say that’s NI. It’s going to be England and Scotland too. This online hatred isn’t in neat little pockets

I agree of course, but it is not incidental or additional that these race riots are connected to loyalist groups. Loyalist groups are very experienced in stoking civil unrest, inciting riots etc. Many loyalist paramilitaries remain heavily armed. And racism has long been an open if not definitive features of loyalism, from grassroots to leadership. The race rioting and the loyalism are completely inextricable.

Absolutely I agree with you @ByGraptharsHammer . N.Ireland is unique because unfortunately there has been a lot of practice with rioting (by a minority) But you are right this is spreading everywhere, not just in Britain.

These criminal incidents are happening, hate and disinformation is spread about online and then this spreads over into real life violence.

Yes the wider environment in the UK is febrile. This has the capacity to spread elsewhere in the UK. It is not just NI, and it is different. I do not like all these weirdly cosy remarks about its NI, all usual, loyalists being what they are. Partly true. But missing a much nastier bigger picture across the whole country.

When the Independent Reviewer of terrorism talks about migration as a matter of national security, this is the risk he is talking about. This is not business as usual for the UK.

I agree re: the febrile atmosphere. I'd be very scared if it were my house / car etc being burnt and I don't want this to be interpreted as gleefully cheering on violence.

But I've also been following anti-immigration forums online for several years (as an immigrant although with mainly British & Irish ancestry), and one of the reasons I've been very vocal about wanting legal immigration routes (incl. but not only asylum) to be significantly restricted is because it has been clear to me for some time that this is headed for physical, violent conflict if something does not change.

I've come back to Mumsnet after a hiatus and I don't think the average poster here has a sense of what is possible. It seems many people think the worst case scenario is something like "Nigel Farage might be peacefully and democratically elected".

"It seems many people think the worst case scenario is something like "Nigel Farage might be peacefully and democratically elected".

No. The worst thing is Nigel Farage is peacefully and democratically elected because people are desperate for change. He fails to deliver this change because the solutions he has put forward don't work and are based on lies and everything gets worse and everyone gets more disillusioned and angry. So they vote for someone even harsher and are left disappointed so there's more unrest, more political polarisation.
Some people on the left think that it would be good if Reform got in because "it would show he was lying" but that's not what happened with Brexit. Another thing people voted for because they were desperate for change and angry about immigration and the economy. The people left feeling let down go further from the mainstream not back to it. And just as with Brexit the changes Reform and Restore are suggesting would make the economic situation worse, hurt people on benefits, hurt people in employment and wouldn't solve the main issue people are upset about.

TLDR men like Nigel Farage are not the alternative/bulwark against the worst case scenario. They are the ones making it more likely. Have been since UKIP days

my own politics are almost irrelevant really. What I can see is people are afraid and losing the capacity to think. I also think there is quite a lot of delusional thinking about how tolerant the UK is of a multiracial society, because it does not look like that to me. You would not have parties like Restore making progress if that were true.

Yes. It can get a lot worse, and people seem to be thinking that Reform stay as they are. Look at the conversations and events being had in the country. I think it is delusional on some level.

Emotionally charged people engage. They get angry. I am beginning to cringe at the mainstream political parties who are not really listening and assume business as usual will address it.

My point is that the worst-case scenario is one where a critical mass of people decide that their ethnic identity is sufficiently threatened that they will abandon the ballot box entirely and seek other means to secure it. Based on where I lived before I came to the UK - a peaceful, democratic, non-violent society is not something I take for granted.

Any scenarios involving peaceful democratic transfers of power are not "the worst case".

I agree that it remains to be seen if Reform (or any other party) will actually be able to deliver change on a scale that would prevent the above.