School lateness punishments, neurodiversity and the law

[VividDenimTiger]

Posting here for traffic really. DD 14 has had issues in secondary school- we suspect ADHD to be honest. I am unravelling my own mid life ADHD traits at the moment too.

For DD, one of the things that manifests in school is persistent lateness. She just can’t organise herself to get to lessons on time. The school has now brought in a punishment for lateness where anyone late more than 5 mins gets sent to a punishment room for the lesson. Needless to say DD is now missing loads of lessons because of her lateness.

I know that it’s annoying for teachers when kids are late for lessons but it feels like this policy unfairly targets kids, like my DD, who might or do have some issues with timekeeping because of other things going on.

Aibu? I am trying to unravel some of this for DD (and myself) but I am really angry about how punitive this policy is- it feels like it disadvantages kids who genuinely have issues with organising their time and themselves. The corridors are really busy in school and she gets upset and overwhelmed and that doesn’t help all of this.

Diagnosed mental health problems maybe but undiagnosed who knows.

And there's a huge number of people in their 30s , 40s and beyond who are getting diagnosed as adults many of us can track back to our secondary school lives and start to understand things so much better now we know!

“Helplessness”- she’s in school and battling a disability. That is anything but helpless.

If it's extended to everyone it's not a RA is it. The RA would be for ops dd to have additional time on top of the 5 mins everyone else gets.

That’s incorrect. It’s good practice to extend adjustments where possible, to include those who may not have disclosed needs. For example, a ramp is an adjustment, but can be used by all.

But that's the point if everyone is taking the 5 minute grace to get to class it doesn't become me calm in the corridors until the others have got the class.

To link to your ramp point. If 20 pupils are standing and chatting on the ramp the pupil who needs the ramp can't use it until the pupils move. While the pupils are stood on the ramp the disabled pupils can not move.
When everyone is in the corridor chatty, pushing, moving the ND pupils with anxiety about corridor cramping can not travel to her next class.

Why can you not understand that?

Well generally the teachers are on duty and clearing the corridors from the ‘on time’ time. Children who are directly outside their classroom will be allowed in at the on time time. So…. Those that then need the 5 minutes, with a disclosed disability or not can then use it. I do understand that ;)

There are not 40% of people with disabilities.

But if there were...
If 40% of the workforce were deaf wouldn't the remaining 60% be more likely to learn sign language and be more likely to be patient and understanding in their communication? Why doesnt this apply to ND? Why is ND just seen as an inconvenience and not acknowledged as a disability? What is it that makes it so controversial?

ND reasonable adjustments are about making things equitable for everyone so of course the requirements of the school don't change. But how are they changing in the Ops daughters scenario? To get a grade she will still need to perform in her GCSEs surely thats the ultimate aim of school. Can you explain how ear defenders or avoiding loud corridors for example mean she can't be a good school student.

The OP is asking for support to help her daughter its absurdly disabling to imply that we cant help because we just dont have the resources.

Not to mention the fact that the vast majority of reasonable adjustments actually improve the classroom experience for ALL PUPILS

I really adhere to the ‘fake it til you make it’ mantra, in so many aspects of life. My ND has learned to cope by pretending she’s coping. Then though she has tough days most of the day she’s actually coping. Hiding away behind excuses helps no one.

40% of Scottish pupils have additional needs. Not disabilities, but needs that mean they cannot participate fully in mainstream school.

Exactly this. A reasonable adjustment can be useful and help all pupils. For example using particular fonts on a PowerPoint. But if the RA is about allowing certain pupils to have a calmer transition between lessons by moving at a separate time the benefit would be lost if everyone had it!

I'm not sure that everyone really believes in neurodivergent sensory processing differences. This poster is an example of someone who really just doesnt get it!

If people are interested to know more its easy to find resources. For sensory overload I like The "Broken Bouncer" Analogy:

"A typical brain has an invisible 'bouncer' at the door that filters out background noise, bright lights, and side conversations so you can focus. In a neurodivergent brain, that bouncer is missing. Every single piece of data, the hum of the fridge, a flickering light, a passing car, and your voice rushes into the room all at once at maximum volume."

It's not the same feeling for someone with ND as it is for a neurotypical person in a crowded corridor.

Um you do realise that ND varies massively. Some have autism, some have adhd and some have both.All 3 conditions vary massively. Some also battle dyspraxia, Ehrlors Danlos syndrome, CPTSD, EDs, depressive severe anxiety etc alongside as ND is linked with all.

Your child does not speak for all and what you’re describing is called masking which is hugely damaging. It nearly killed my dd and much of her recovery lead by highly trained specialists was based on learning not to mask and to learn to vocalise her needs whilst finding ways not to overload.

She actually appearing to cope
Lots of ND girls in particular are experts at looking like the are coping (this is called masking ).
They are great at acting the part but this comes at a hidden cost that you can't see but the ND individual is experiencing

This can go on for a very long time until they just can not keep the mask in place anymore. At best this is a burnout at worst they will be suicidal

Even the best case scenario will result in burnout and mental health issues.
The longer someone masks for without support and downtime the bigger the crash when they eventually crumble and the longer the recovery.

You don’t speak for all either. For some it’s an extremely useful mantra. I spent many years with clinical depression. I was lucky at the time that I didn’t have any other option than to get out of bed every day, slap a fake smile on my face and head to work. It got me chatting to others, made me think of something other than the best way to end my life. There were only 13 days in 7 years of depression when I couldn’t face work.

Giving depressed people benefits to sit at home all day seems actively cruel to me.

I disagree.

Well professionals and experts in the field disagree with you. The evidence to show masking is damaging is huge.

One of the best posts on here.

Obviously not every disability can be dealt with in this way but refreshing to come across a poster who recognises that she alone has the power to determine the quality of life she leads.

Maybe your depression was mild.

Like you had a sniffle and someone else has pneumonia its not comparable

You don’t get benefits for being depressed. You get sfa, you’re unlikely to get either treatment or benefits for depression even if you attempt to take your own life.

Depression is not autism or adhd so the way you handled your depression is neither here nor there.

Fake smiles nearly killed my dd and lead to severe MH struggles for many ND women and girls.

Not refreshing- ignorant.

The impact of masking
Masking autistic characteristics and suppressing your needs, preferences, instincts and coping mechanisms (such as stimming) can result in:

• distressed behaviour, including meltdowns and/or shutdowns (often only expressed when it can’t be held in any longer or when the individual feels safe enough in their environment to do so, such as when they get home from school)
• mental and physical exhaustion (which can lead to autistic burnout)
• mental health difficulties (including increased suicidality and/or self-harm)
• isolation and/or feeling disconnected from other people
• being more vulnerable to abuse (if you ‘blend in’ by overriding your reactions and going along with what other people want, this may not keep you safe in certain situations, such as sexual interactions)
• a loss of sense of self
• low self-esteem.

www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/behaviour/masking

THIS!!

My goodness me now we are saying the solution to feeling overwhelmed is to fucking mask!!!

That's what so many people particularly girls did in the past and why so many of us have crippling anxiety sress and depression. Read the research , masking is managing.

"Faking it till you make it" is storing up mental health problems for the future.

And would we ask a person with 2 broken legs to fake walking or expect adjustments to be made ffs!!!

I know it’s unbelievable.

Some people on here need to look at rates of suicide among autistic young people. Many of whom spent years masking.

Autistic people are up to 7 times more likely to commit suicide than their neurotypical peers. Being forced to mask is life threatening and people advocating it are ignorant and dangerous and this thread is demonstrating what a problem we have in our society and why so much needs to be done.

OP please dont take votes on this thread at face value. Most of the people voting wont have any idea what its like to parent a child with ND.

ND is a protected disability the same as visible disabilities. ND children have the same rights for reasonable adjustments as those who need wheelchairs. You wouldn’t tell a child using a wheelchair to make do without it so telling a ND child to make do without the support they need is not only ableist but hugely offensive.

The fact is, reasonable adjustments have to be reasonable. What if one of the pupils in class is ND and finds her attending late difficult? How do you balance those two? Both are as a result of the same issue, and looking at it as who trumps who is not helpful. The reality is that, in the workplace (which secondary school is meant to prepare you for) there has to be a line drawn. I’ve spent all day supporting a ND student who, frankly, should have been told this is the wrong career for them. It isn’t unkind to prevent someone spending £100,000+ on a path to nowhere. Any more than it’s unkind to expect one person’s needs to be tipping everyone else’s. She either needs to manage it, or be somewhere where it can be managed without harming those around her.